South American Quality vs UAW Quality

[dfw.embalmer]

Originally Posted by golf strom

I hear you...




The problem is/was not only with the UAW it was with the executive management as well.

One of the biggest complaints the rank and file had was that while the execs were constantly asking for more and more cuts, the upper management were taking NONE.

I'm thinking that if the CEOs and upper management would have been willing to take drastic pay and benefits cuts the workers would have too.

"Leading by example" is something I live by...and you would think that business leaders would as well but unfortunately this has not often been the case.

In the end, the execs lost big (some of them their jobs) Hopefully Fiat will fix Chrysler and the Government will fix GM.

I will not, for the record....EVER purchase a UAW built car again. If the new Focus is built in Wayne, my wife will get a Fiesta SEL with sunroof and leather.

I can not support $70 dollar an hour labor. Period. Doctors, Lawyers...professionals...yeah, someone who went to college got a degree served apprenticeships/residencies has student loans to pay back, they earned the right to make that kind of money...anyone can turn a wrench. Even a Caveman.......

[AlanBDahl]

Originally Posted by dfw.embalmer

I will not, for the record....EVER purchase a UAW built car again. If the new Focus is built in Wayne, my wife will get a Fiesta SEL with sunroof and leather.

I can not support $70 dollar an hour labor. Period. Doctors, Lawyers...professionals...yeah, someone who went to college got a degree served apprenticeships/residencies has student loans to pay back, they earned the right to make that kind of money...anyone can turn a wrench. Even a Caveman.......

I also have a Pontiac Solstice built by UAW labor in the Wilmington Delaware plant that Fisker recently took over and the quality is fine, much better than the '06 Miata I traded in on it.

BTW average UAW pay is $28 an hour, not $70. The higher value is arrived at by taking total personel expenses (wages, health care, pensions, etc) and then adding in the the massive number of retiree's pensions and then dividing that amount by the number of current workers:

Average UAW Pay: $28, Not $70 - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

To your last point auto assembling is no longer just a mindless mechanical job where you do nothing like tighten lug bolts all day but one requiring quite a degree of skill and computer knowledge. In fact one of the automakers biggest worries these days is a shortage of workers with the skills it takes to work in a modern auto assembly plant:

Auto industry may see labor shortage - USATODAY.com

[Casca]

Originally Posted by dfw.embalmer

I can not support $70 dollar an hour labor. Period. Doctors, Lawyers...professionals...yeah, someone who went to college got a degree served apprenticeships/residencies has student loans to pay back, they earned the right to make that kind of money...anyone can turn a wrench. Even a Caveman.......

I can promise you that not eveyone can turn a wrench. In fact, some people are pretty freaken scary around tools and their approach to fixing things should be with their checkbook and turning over their car to someone else.

[blueflame]

I seriously rofled when I saw that, if you think anyone can turn a wrench then I don't know what to say...

[timo]

FWIW, Mexico is in North America.

[er13]

Originally Posted by timo

FWIW, Mexico is in North America.

This. Even "Central America" works better than south.

[Gavas]

My wife's 08 Focus never had any issues/rattles. Yeah, it was a dated design, but aside from that, it actually rode very well and was a heck of a deal at its price point. On the other hand, my German union-built VW had all sorts of issues. I honestly don't see what the union/non-union status of employees has to do with built quality. It's all about the design and the manufacturing processes/quality control that are in place.

[nikita]

Originally Posted by Gavas

... I honestly don't see what the union/non-union status of employees has to do with built quality. It's all about the design and the manufacturing processes/quality control that are in place.

Thank you.

Alan came from Boeing, a heavily unionized company not known for great labor relations, yet build quality is second to none. He just needs to kick butt at all levels of management, which I think he is doing.

Im not a union booster by any means. We actually kicked out our union. Just dont blame the UAW for quality issues. NUMMI took exactly the same UAW workers in the same factory and stopped building GM designed cars and started building Toyota designed ones. The result was night and day.

[dfw.embalmer]

Originally Posted by AlanBDahl

I also have a Pontiac Solstice built by UAW labor in the Wilmington Delaware plant that Fisker recently took over and the quality is fine, much better than the '06 Miata I traded in on it.

BTW average UAW pay is $28 an hour, not $70. The higher value is arrived at by taking total personel expenses (wages, health care, pensions, etc) and then adding in the the massive number of retiree's pensions and then dividing that amount by the number of current workers:

Average UAW Pay: $28, Not $70 - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

To your last point auto assembling is no longer just a mindless mechanical job where you do nothing like tighten lug bolts all day but one requiring quite a degree of skill and computer knowledge. In fact one of the automakers biggest worries these days is a shortage of workers with the skills it takes to work in a modern auto assembly plant:

Auto industry may see labor shortage - USATODAY.com

Regarding the shortage of labor, maybe US companies should open more manufacturing operations in South America, creating meaningful jobs, and quite possibly, that could help solve our immigration issues!


Regarldless of how you arrive at the $70. per hour figure, that's what they are shelling out per employee....regardless of how much of it actuall goes in the pocket of the employee, that is the expense. That expense is the result of years and years of unreasonable wage increases and benefits. That is why me, the taxpayer is funding the day to day operations of GM, and Chrysler (I know GM said they paid the money back with interest) but as yet, the money has not changed hands. It's pure greed.....$28. per hour plus bennies still racks up to around $50. per employee...with around $20 going to the retirees...it is still ridiculous!

[ibinubu12]

Originally Posted by dfw.embalmer

Regarding the shortage of labor, maybe US companies should open more manufacturing operations in South America, creating meaningful jobs, and quite possibly, that could help solve our immigration issues!


Regarldless of how you arrive at the $70. per hour figure, that's what they are shelling out per employee....regardless of how much of it actuall goes in the pocket of the employee, that is the expense. That expense is the result of years and years of unreasonable wage increases and benefits. That is why me, the taxpayer is funding the day to day operations of GM, and Chrysler (I know GM said they paid the money back with interest) but as yet, the money has not changed hands. It's pure greed.....$28. per hour plus bennies still racks up to around $50. per employee...with around $20 going to the retirees...it is still ridiculous!

Lets remember here that the Big Three had no problem with those wages until your "college educated" (needs the quotes) bankers drove the economy into total collapse. Only then, when other weaknesses in the business, and in the product, did the UAW wages become a problem.

If you honestly think that the "average joe" on the line is a high-school dropout, think again. The Big Three DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT hire line workers without an Associates Degree or vocational school certificate. PERIOD. In the past, yes. But anyone who has been hired anytime recently is not your "joe sixpack".

Here's another question. When Joe UAW does screw the screw in wrong, is it his fault that he will be disciplined if he has to take the time to unscrew it and repair the damage. That his non-UAW line manager has a quota to meet, and damn the quality if it means slowing the line?

Sure, there are problems with the UAW. I'm not a member, and I don't plan to ever be a union member. But associating "UAW" with poor quality is farcical. Explain GM Lansing Grand River's Bronze Award for plant quality by JDPower. It's those damn UAW slackers who can't build anything right. Oh wait...

Let's also consider that the work is very,very repetitive, can cause stress injuries, and in most plants, there is NO air conditioning. Sure, they've got fans, but the machinery keeps it over 90 most all year round. Would you like working there? Perhaps $14 wouldn't be enough to make you do it. Perhaps you'd need more motivation?

For what it's worth, I couldn't be a line worker. Not for a career. Thats what those "$70" people have been doing. The "$70" worker is not a 2004 hire. He's a 1980 hire. We e We can't all be doctors and lawyers. But there is no reason that we can't have people earning a good living that don't work in an office.