Hybrids Debate

[Audrey]

I was drawn to the Fiesta for three reasons initially:

1. Sub $20k Pricepoint
2. Ford Label
3. High MPG

My first thoughts when looking at new cars were MPG, so I started looking around for hybrids. I looked at used hybrids and read a bit about the battery technology, how the batteries are made and disposed of (highly toxic!), the extra maintenance they require/cause, and lifetime expectancy of them vs. warranty on them. Coming from a computer support background I know that battery warranty time period is usually shorter than the rest of the product because the battery is known to fail sooner. Ultimately finding a hybrid from a brand I knew something about below $20k was impossible. They also came with a lot of down-the-road costs, so a used one was impractical in my eyes. Lastly, I'm a huge fan of all electric cars and see hyrbids as a crutch for society... I worry that we'll never move past them to fully electric vehicles.

The following article sings to these concerns too:
Study Says Hybrids Are a Lousy Value | Autopia | Wired.com

What are your thoughts on hybrids? Do you own one? What are you experiences with hybrids?

[GapBoyPCS]

No hybrids for me just yet.

My fuel consumption and driving habits won't net me any real gains. Plus, I'd be one of the lucky few who will have to replace their battery packs given climate and mileage

That being said, I wouldn't mind a city-only electric vehicle for those jaunts within the city

[TRiumPH-RDR]

I was originally looking at the new Honda CR-Z, which is Their latest mild hybrid. It's pretty cool looking, especially in person, but for a hybrid, the EPA mileage is not that great.

Then I noticed the Fiesta. On paper, they look very similar: sporty, small (a good thing), and similar 0-60 times. BUT the fiesta is quite a bit cheaper and is not a hybrid. It's got a bit more room than the CR-Z too.

I've test-driven both cars and the Fiesta feels a tad bit slower, but that may have been due to not trying the L setting on the A/T. Haven't really been able to see what either of these cars are like on a twisty road so I'd really like to see a comparo.

Anyway, these two cars seem to be aimed at the same audience. I'm surprised the Honda hasn't been mentioned on this forum yet.

[Audrey]

Originally Posted by TRiumPH-RDR

I'm surprised the Honda hasn't been mentioned on this forum yet.

I initially cross shopped the Fiesta with a Honda Civic because of its MPG and pricepoint. I enjoyed the feel and finishing touches of the Fiesta over the Civic however.

[GapBoyPCS]

Originally Posted by TRiumPH-RDR

Anyway, these two cars seem to be aimed at the same audience. I'm surprised the Honda hasn't been mentioned on this forum yet.

In terms of some car-speak, most of the mention of Honda would be in terms of the Fit because it's part of that segment (B-class). I used to group all small cars as compacts/subcompacts/economy/etc. but it looks like things have changed

I'd consider the CR-Z in a different class - only because of what it was spiritually supposed to replace (the old 2-seater, CRX). Their website, however, decides to group the del Sol, and Insight into the mix as well. As 2-seaters, sure. As a "sporty 2-seater", I think the marketing division didn't get what enthusiasts are thinking.

As for the Civic, theoretically its Ford competitor would be the Focus (C-class).

Would a Honda hybrid win? Who knows. The Civic continues to be a very popular car up here in Canada; however, there are not many hybrids versions on the road. Even with the previous hybrid, the Insight, there weren't many takers. There were reports that Honda was to discontinue sales in Canada. That has since been revised and Honda are to sell "as needed". What one could read between the lines is that things aren't selling well - for who knows what reason. That being said, the most common hybrids I see are either the Toyota Prius, Toyota Camry, Lexus RX400h, Ford Fusion, and the Ford Escape.

[TRiumPH-RDR]

Getting back to your original post question... I own a 2001 Prius which has been a fantastic car. It's nearly 10 years old and it hasn't developed a single rattle or squeak. It's got decent power, despite what the press may have led people to believe. I don't drive that much any more, so I only have about 70K miles on it, but have had zero problems with it. In fact, the only reason why I'd want to replace it is because I'd just like something sportier to drive, not because the car is getting old or ratty. It's got another 150K left in it, I'd bet.

As far as battery life goes, a story often quoted is that the New York Prius taxis have gone 300K miles without replacement batteries... basically the rest of the car fell apart before the batteries did. Also, the NiMH batteries in wrecked Prius cars are often sought after by recyclers for the metals, which are the main toxic component. Toyota also recycles them when they are replaced by Toyota.

I think that hybrids have their place and they have been a great option when nothing else could come close for mileage combined with comfort and drivability. Sure, you could get a Geo Metro with a 3 cylinder motor, and get about the same mileage, but would you want to drive one on an 800 mile trip?

Now that the Ford Fiesta offers great mileage with a non-hybrid motor, and Chevy will have their Cruze out soon, we have some great options. It may not get quite the same mileage as the hybrids in real-world conditions, but it's a great option for those who do not want a hybrid.

I am still checking the board to see what people are getting, mileage wise, with their Fiestas. I noticed that the EPA estimates for the Honda hybrids are conservative and owners report much better mileage, especially for the Insight and CR-Z. I'm hoping the same is true for the Fiesta.

Sorry for being so long winded!

[TRiumPH-RDR]

Originally Posted by GapBoyPCS

In terms of some car-speak, most of the mention of Honda would be in terms of the Fit because it's part of that segment (B-class). I used to group all small cars as compacts/subcompacts/economy/etc. but it looks like things have changed

It does get confusing. I guess the Fit is a close car to the Fiesta, though I wonder if they are really aimed at the same audience.

I'd consider the CR-Z in a different class - only because of what it was spiritually supposed to replace (the old 2-seater, CRX). Their website, however, decides to group the del Sol, and Insight into the mix as well. As 2-seaters, sure. As a "sporty 2-seater", I think the marketing division didn't get what enthusiasts are thinking.

From what I hear, even the Honda sale people don't know what to make of the CR-Z.

[eRic]

I test drove a Prius a while back and it was like... an appliance. Nothing wrong with that but I wasn't fun to drive. It was silent and sort of cool looking but it didn't make me want to drive it. the Scion tC that I also drove was more fun but too heavy at 3000 lb. The 106 inch wheelbase didn't help in slaloms.

[Tink75]

According to this Ford's first had electric vehicles 1967 Looking back at Ford's EV past, forward to the 2012 Focus Electric and a 2013 plug-in hybrid -- Engadget

[Hoonu]

We have a G1 Prius. Like yours, our car has had no significant problems. We'd had 8 years of 44 MPG+. 141K in North Carolina weather. I haven't read enough to know if heat is a preciptiating factor in traction battery failure, but we just had ours fail . That is not a plea$ant repair. There was no warning on the failure, which also took out the battery CPU.

My wife had decided that she was going to look for a new car this year. The previous reliability of the Prius made us comfortable to keep driving it until the Fiesta was available, and to let us look at the competition. She'd ruled out the third generation Prius because it's so much bigger than the first generation, and she wanted something sportier. But, having the failure on this car, and knowing that the "fuse is burning" so to speak on a hybrid is enough that we had no inclination toward a second one, even the CR-Z.