The "Let's keep Dearborn from taking the goodness out of the FoE Fiesta" Thread!

[mrbirdman330]

I generally prefer the European front fascia as well but the logic of this change is sound; Giving the car the three-bar chrome grille fits in with the already established Ford "look" and further strengthens the identity of the overall brand. Long-run they're moving away from the chrome grille look but for now to come out with a car that has no visual ties at all with the Focus or Taurus would only create confusion.

Ok look at what you just said there, the established "Ford" look. Take a look at what Ford is like around the rest of the world. You will not see that Mach 3Razor on the front of a Ford Falcon XR8, A Ford MK III Focus, The Fiesta, A Ford Territory, Ford Bantam, or Ford Escape Australia, and the Ford Everest. It is the "Ford North America" look. It doesn't strengthen the identity at all. I don't want a stupid badge to seperate the look of a Fiesta from a Focus. Further more thats what a different design is all about, to HAVE NO VISUAL TIES with any other model on the market offered by Ford.

[FiestaFan]

Well now you're not making sense. American customers by-and-large are not enthusiasts and couldn't give a rat's ass what a car only sold on the other side of the planet looks like, all they know is the "Ford North America" look. Ford's moving towards a look that's the same globally, but for now IN AMERICA they've established the three-bar grille as their family face and to move away from that instantly or with just one car would show an inconsistency and a lack of attention to detail that they can't really afford right now.

It's pretty clear that the intention short-to-medium-term is for America to transition smoothly over to the global look by mixing the three-bar face with the Kinetic Design elements, like in the new Taurus and indeed the American Fiesta.

[azulejost]

Originally Posted by mrbirdman330

Further more thats what a different design is all about, to HAVE NO VISUAL TIES with any other model on the market offered by Ford.

While denying the striking similarities in design themes present in practically every Ford from all-praised Europe makes this statement possible, it doesn't change the truth that from Ka to Fiesta to Focus to C-Max to Mondeo to S-Max to Kuga, the emphatic lower, trapezoidal grille and front fascia clearly unite the Ford brand of Europe just as the three-bar grille does for NA. Other examples would be Cadillac, VW, Toyota, Lamborghini, Audi, Porsche, Volvo, Jaguar, Aston Martin, and just about everyone else. Sure, Ford may be a bit different since the EU products are different than the NA ones, but that's due to a long history of separation owing to Ford's previous domination of the British market due to their continent specific models. As FiestaFan aptly stated, the convergence in kinetic and American design is coming, the Fiesta and Focus will be further evolutionary developments of this melding.

[mrbirdman330]

And as I said before "Oh dear crickey, Dearborn actually designing something world wide" The Mach 3 Razor look is just way too ugly period. I look at it this way, the trapezoid shape is subtle, its not very noticable and fits the face of the car. The Mach 3 look, not so bold were trying to look like the good ol' days of the 40's and 50's when big chrome grills were the thing. It just doesn't work for the Taurus and Taurus X, the Flex and the Focus. In my opinion it made them look ugly and unattractive. That if the sun hit just right the glare off the grills would fry somebodies eyes worse than HID's. You don't need a huge frickin chrome grill to sell a car.

[FiestaFan]

You really embrace the fallacy of stating opinion as fact. You think the chrome grille look is ugly, not the entire human race or even Ford's customer base as you imply. Indeed the success of the current Fusion (which probably has the most chromey grille of any car in the last 20 years) and Focus completely counteract your argument. Further your assertion that having a "distinct" design means a completely different car unidentifiable as coming from the same brand is completely contradicted, as azulejost eloquently explained, by The Moste Holy Ford of Europe's very uniform lineup. Hell the Ka and Fiesta look practically the same; I get them confused when looking at pictures sometimes.

[mrbirdman330]

And as I said before the trap is subtle it isn't sticking out there it really isn't one of the first things you're going to notice about the car. The first thing a customer always looks at when they first see a car is the wheels, second is sides of the car. The reason why is to see how clean the car is, then they look at the back and finally last but not least the front of the car. Really to the average person the front makes no difference them really styling makes no difference to them. To really put this in retrospec of what makes this upsetting because this is a situation which happened to me at the center I worked at and was temporarily incharge of.

I had recieved in the morning a reservation for a very expensive move to go to Florida. I had a brand new and I mean BRAND NEW oneway truck on my lot. It had like some 500 miles on it. Customer was paying in excess of 4 grand to move so I designated and assigned them that brand new truck. I left to go on break and get lunch, I left my not so bright co-worker alone for a measly half an hour it was more than enough time to do damage. This is what I mean, he gave that brand new truck to a walk in customer for a move to Omaha Nebraska. I had wrote the truck was designated to go to Florida on its Dispatch Tag, it was in notes that the truck was to go to Florida. He ignored it, instead I ended up having to give that Customer an older and I mean older oneway truck, a truck that was three years old and had been around the block. Yeah it looked good wasn't actually physically damaged except a scratch here and there but it wasn't a Brand New Truck he was promised and told by reservations that he would get. I was furious that it happened and ended up having to discount the customer in serious apology for not getting that truck he was told. If I could have taken it out of my co-workers paycheck I would have.

This is what Ford is doing, they parade over this Eurospec Fiesta saying "Look whats coming to America the new car in the line up you can buy." People like it, people praise it now then these test mules running around are painting the same situation that happened to me. Being promised one thing and getting another.

[FiestaFan]

Eh, well I applaud your sense of morals but a company is a company and they're not always going to follow their promises to the letter. In the end Ford is doing what they think is best for the car to succeed, I genuinely believe that, not because of some conspiracy to keep those Yuropee-an furrin cars out of our country as some here have proposed.

That means some region-specific changes, like bigger seats and a lower price to make it appeal to a wider audience, which will unfortunately ultimately include people who only buy the car because they can't afford something bigger. Enthusiasts like us who are willing to spend 20 grand on a subcompact don't make up a very large segment of the population and trying to appeal to us as vehemently as you think Ford should would limit their customer base and cause the program to lose money, more likely than not. Ford is being realistic in their decisions and I think you need to realize that life is, as the cliche goes, full of compromises.

[golf strom]

Originally Posted by FiestaFan

In the end Ford is doing what they think is best for the car to succeed, I genuinely believe that, not because of some conspiracy to keep those Yuropee-an furrin cars out of our country as some here have proposed.
.

The way this marketing program is panning out tells me that Dearborn has a bit of (no actually lots of) contempt for the potential Fiesta customer in the USA....It almost seems to me like a version of "bait and switch". But there is no actual crime because nothing has actually been sold yet....Will US import buyers fall for it? I don't think too many will.


Totally agreed about the garrish chrome front fascia on the Fusion...so I guess the tie in is the F-150 gene pool? Who knows what Dearborn is thinking here..at least the new Taurus isn't that bad....

As far as the issue of "turf protection" .....while nobody can ever prove such things that are outside of an organization like Ford, I'd bet my bottom dollar on this occuring much more often than most would suspect, the reason why? Because of profit losing projects like the 08 MKI Focus refresh for the USA. If something doesn't look like it is going to make a modest profit for the company WHY DO it? Unless it perhaps is a long range project...but US companies to this day almost NEVER handle things this way..it is always short term quick big profits that crash, at the expense of long term stability and reasonable profits.

[azulejost]

Originally Posted by golf strom

As far as the issue of "turf protection" .....while nobody can ever prove such things that are outside of an organization like Ford, I'd bet my bottom dollar on this occuring much more often than most would suspect, the reason why? Because of profit losing projects like the 08 MKI Focus refresh for the USA. If something doesn't look like it is going to make a modest profit for the company WHY DO it? Unless it perhaps is a long range project...but US companies to this day almost NEVER handle things this way..it is always short term quick big profits that crash, at the expense of long term stability and reasonable profits.

I am no fan of the '08 to current Focus, but I must question your double speak here. The refresh is profit losing--could you support that assertion with data? Perhaps you haven't thought of the situation where Ford had an aging Focus platform they could continue to produce and sell at a consistent price point instead of retooling for a more expensive Mk2 Focus. This allowed Ford to capitalize on the gas price concerns of a year ago as they knew it would be 2010 before a sub-Focus would be offered. Therefore, the existing Mk1 Focus ensured a tested and economical model would be in the lineup until the revamped lineup with the Fiesta and Focus could offer efficient options across a broad price spectrum. Ford isn't just out to screw the US market--their home market.

[golf strom]

azulejost:

Unfortunately I cannot provide you with official data, this would almost be impossible as internal data and communications are not for public view or consumption. However, it had been reported by an journalist at a major automotive publication that a company insider stated that ...."it cost Ford much more to refresh the MKI Focus in 08 extensively than it would have to DOT/EPA the MKII Focus and build it say in the Mexican plant"

Just hearsay to be sure, but considering my knowledge of production and engineering costs I would have to agree that if anything it would have been at worst a wash...and in the process the USA would have gotten the newer much BETTER product at only a slightly higher cost.