The "Let's keep Dearborn from taking the goodness out of the FoE Fiesta" Thread!

[golf strom]

Originally Posted by FiestaFan

Then you prove my other point that we don't know yet what the car will be like. I personally believe the Fiesta will still be a great car regardless of what grille it has or whether it has blinkers in the wing mirrors, whereas all you two care about are the little features and luxury items and not the overall excellence of the car. The true verdict won't come for a few years, when the car has been on sale a while and we can conclude for sure that it's been a successful, high-quality product.

What I find interesting also is that when it arrives the new Fiesta will actually be changed MUCH MORE than the MKI Focus was when it arrived stateside back in 2000. Dearborn never paraded the European Focus around in the US (with the exception of a very few media presentations) like they have done with this Fiesta...very odd, very dishonest too. IMO.

Maybe the Fiesta will drive like the EU car but that doesn't make the whole of a product...Again you and Dearborn are missing the point....When they change so many things (whatever they are) they are degrading the cohesiveness and character of the original engineering, which to me degrades the ownership experience.

I think the failure to understand eachother on this point proves that Dearborn doesn't understand the importance of (cohesive engineering and design) another words the product in this case, a car, feels crafted out of one piece of metal, or whatever....due to engineering AND DESIGN elements. The changes being made to the Fiesta are afterthoughts, no matter how well intentioned. Of course the gov't regs items are unavoidable, and that is totally understood and acceptable.

[mrbirdman330]

The Transit is aimed at Fleetsales and Commercial Customers with an optionless wagon for the public. I understand that the Transit Connect is meant for fleet but there are those like me who would love one for personal use and want a manual transmission. I know its a pretty low percent but it wouldn't kill Ford to bring over a few that have a manual or allow a special ordering of one.

[mrbirdman330]

Originally Posted by golf strom

What I find interesting also is that when it arrives the new Fiesta will actually be changed MUCH MORE than the MKI Focus was when it arrived stateside back in 2000. Dearborn never paraded the European Focus around in the US (with the exception of a very few media presentations) like they have done with this Fiesta...very odd, very dishonest too. IMO.

Maybe the Fiesta will drive like the EU car but that doesn't make the whole of a product...Again you and Dearborn are missing the point....When they change so many things (whatever they are) they are degrading the cohesiveness and character of the original engineering, which to me degrades the ownership experience.

I think the failure to understand eachother on this point proves that Dearborn doesn't understand the importance of (cohesive engineering and design) another words the product in this case, a car, feels crafted out of one piece of metal, or whatever....due to engineering AND DESIGN elements. The changes being made to the Fiesta are afterthoughts, no matter how well intentioned. Of course the gov't regs items are unavoidable, and that is totally understood and accpeted.

Whats interesting is this and I'll put it out, it seems there is almost no difference in the bumpers of the new Eurospec and NAspec Transit Connect.

Eurospec


NAspec


Only differences are the adding of side turn indicators on the bumper which was not needed because side turn indicators are on the fender and for some reason giving the US model a smaller mirror...

[FiestaFan]

If you had read the links I'd posted on the previous page you'd know American regs require different wing mirrors than Europe does. Also I imagine the Transit Connect's front end was redesigned right before it was sold here, probably to comply with US regs. The pre-facelift model looks like it has a smaller front bumper..the Kinetic Design cues (which IMO were clumsily integrated) were probably a secondary reason for the facelift.

Also if the side turn indicators on the bumper were added I'm sure it was because it was required. Look at all the European cars here that have reflectors/blinkers in the same area...it's because US law requires all four corners of the car to have reflectors and blinkers, and the fender repeater apparently doesn't cut it.

@golf strom: Can you prove the Focus was changed less? It got similarly extensive changes from what I recall; different/bigger bumpers, new grille, lack of fender repeaters, tweaked taillights, cheaper interior materials (though I doubt the latter will be the case for the Fiesta). But it wasn't those changes that hurt the car's sales and reputation, it was the 11-12 recalls in one year or however many there were. That won't happen with the Fiesta, and if you can tell me what makes that car "much more" modified than the Mk1 US Focus please do.

I can understand what you mean with all that "cohesiveness" of design stuff but now it seems like you're grasping at straws. It's too bad that the grille and bumper won't be the same but that really shouldn't kill the car's entire appeal for you. The cohesiveness of the car, IMO, comes far more from the driving experience than from looks. Was it not you or mrbirdman who said it didn't matter if the car was ugly as long as it had the features you wanted and drove well?

Furthermore if Ford had complete 100% American-spec Fiestas to parade around you can bet that's what the Fiesta Movement agents would be driving, but that car isn't ready yet so instead we're seeing the similar (but yes, not identical) European model. Ford is doing what is necessary to spread the word about this car; would you have preferred it had Ford simply kept their mouth shut and killed sales through lack of promotion, which is really the only alternative?

[mrbirdman330]

Depending on who you talk to it varies on the degree of what was changed on the Focus. It comes from upwards of 20% to 70% in changes. Having seen both types of Sedans both being 03 Models the changes were not so different in my opinion from what I could tell were aside the Facelift bumper, the door handles were slightly different due to the different locking mechanisms. The glass, the door panels were a bit better looking on the euro model but both dash's were a hard plastic. The seats of the Euro Model were more comfortable to sit in, brakes were different, and the tail lights due to the US getting rid of the amber turn signals.

I said yes if the car was ugly and had what I wanted I would drive it but Ford doesn't have a model of any car in the line up right now that has options I want. For the Fusion the options I want are Six Cylinder Six Speed Manual, you can't get that. The Taurus has no manual, a Mustang has no appeal to me except when I do get one its because of the Family tradition of owning one. Focus has nothing I want or need even in a Base Model. I have pretty much what I've wanted in a Focus with the ST I own, 2.3L Duratec with Manual Transmission, Performance Suspension, Racing Exhaust along with AC, Tilt, CD Player and Cruise Control. No Sync, no interior ambient lighting, no dash lights that have fifty colors to choose from. Since Ford is not doing options extras with base models I doubt I will be buying a Fiesta unless they have a model that appeals to me.

[golf strom]

Interesting comments about the debuting focus mrbird....

I had a friend that bought the very first model year ( I got to drive it briefly) and as I recall the 3dr HB he had the seats identical to those in a similar trim model from Germany, even the cloth pattern was EXACTLY the same....I remember making mental notes about his car vs the German pics I had seen and there APPEARED to be very few OBVIOUS cosmetic changes..except for the rear turns, amazingly even the HLs for that model year were slightly altered frenel lenses attached to the EU spec reflector housing ....if you looked closely you could even see the blank space for the "city light inside the reflector (except it wasn't utilized).

Even the steering wheel was an exact copy of the EU one.I could not tell the difference.

Honestly the interior appeared to be almost exact at least to my eye.

[mrbirdman330]

From my assumptions and deductions of seeing the two models and from some accounts, the two Foci were almost the exact same until around 02 going into 03. This was when Ford was cheapening some of the parts in an effort to correct the recalls being happened on the NA MK I. Many I have spoken to have said that the first two years of the NA MK I aside from some material difference were almost exact same. When Europe started doing Face Lifts and giving the Ghia Models more good stuff the differences came out. The lower end models were closely similar it was the higher ups that got different.

[FiestaFan]

I imagine the Fiesta will get closer to the Euro model over time anyway. Mid- to long-term the chrome grille look is being phased out so it's perfectly possible (even likely) that when the mid-cycle facelift comes around the Euro and American models will be synchronized even more.

From what I've seen so far though our Fiesta looks to be a high-quality product even if there are some differences to the Euro model. And mrbirdman, I imagine the Fiesta will be available in high-spec trims with a manual since Honda does the same thing with the Fit, and that's Ford's primary target in this market.

[mrbirdman330]

One of two ways I won't gripe about the changes, one it comes out looking exactly like it does now with the MINOR NO COSMETIC changes to accomodate the NA rebar. Second the face comes out looking like the current Focus MK III for both NA and Eurospec. If thats the case I can just get an upper and lower grill from Trevor. Then later HID's which should be perfect plug and play or some quick simple wiring changes and done. No complaints there I won't complain if that happens, but if that thing comes out looking seriously fuglified like the current NA Focus I will gripe about it and write Ford a letter of congratulations on screwing up a beautiful car.

[FiestaFan]

It won't come out like the current NA Focus, not by a long shot. The Focus got all that fussy cliche styling, like fender vents etc. The Fiesta is getting the chrome grille and new bumpers, new taillights on the sedan and maybe on the hatchback model (they looked the same in the spyshots though) and that's it. Basically the exact same car, essentially the same amount of changes you might see in a mid-cycle facelift.