The "Let's keep Dearborn from taking the goodness out of the FoE Fiesta" Thread!

[azulejost]

Originally Posted by Mark Kleis

Gee wiz, all that worrying for nothing?

I too had some unofficial discussions recently, and I feel better about Ford's products than I EVER have before by a mile.

Maybe it's time to start a "Let's thank Dearborn for how awesome the US Fiesta is" thread? I've gotta admit, you guys have made this a pretty awesome couple of days with your insight and "unofficial" words of wisdom. Strong work.

[focalBlur]

Originally Posted by PowerShift

Based on the photos so far there are two ways that Ford MIGHT cheapen the Fiesta for the US.
1 is using wheels from the current Focus. I see that in almost every spy photo.
2 is removing the in-dash screen and buttons and replacing it with a simple slide-out stereo. Like this: XceedSpeed - View Single Post - ford fiesta
This is the only time I've ever seen this interior treatment. Even the Fiesta van in Europe has the screen and buttons. This was photographed in the US so that means it must be under consideration.

Now, I'm not all that attracted to the big screen in the dash but this is a rather crude way to get rid of it. I hope they dump this idea.

Well we more or less know the radio setup will change a little. US bound cars will have the SYNC option, something not offered in Europe.

Also when i test drove one the guy suggested they may move the power lock button because it confused some people

Personally I hope they keep it where it is. I like the little euro touches and they only make me want the car more

Now if we can only convince ford to bring over the ECOnetic fiesta!

[GhiaFan]

Originally Posted by BRGT350

Back from Ford, and I can tell you that very little is being changed. I personally met the engineer working on the Fiesta suspension, and the changes he is making is to keep the handling the same as the EU models. The US cars are getting a little bit heavier up front due to some revised crash structure, and the suspension changes are to keep the car the same as the EU car. Anyone who has taken a HS physics class will know that adding a little weight a far distance from the cg makes a big difference, so the springs are being adjusted accordingly.

After seeing about a million Mondeo's, I think I see the direction of the upper grille, and I am going to be ok with that. It matches what I have been told, and the Verve concept. The other thing about my trip yesterday is that whenever I went to a place that I could not take my camera, I saw only EU cars. Kuga's, Mondeo's, Foci, and Fiesta's. I thought I was in Europe, and that is a good thing.

I have no info on the dash or anything else on the car, but I do know that some of the pictures and my review of the interior was in the design studio as the US team is working on the car.

I was also able to meet some very important people yesterday, and I can tell you that good things are coming and motorsports is a huge part of the new Ford. Meetings are going on about the global small car performance market.

BRGT350, were you able to get inside the Mondeo, Kuga etc, and if so what were your impressions.

So the Kuga is merging with the Escape, but North America will keep the Escape name I understand.

[BRGT350]

I was not able to get inside any of the FoE cars. I did not ask, but I am sure I could have if I wanted to. The interior of the special Focus was outstanding! The Mondeo also looked very upscale. I did not see the Kuga's interior up close. Only had time to glance at some of the FoE stuff there, as there was so much "fun" stuff to see at SVT. Rows of Ford GT's, a Cobra R, GT500's in all sorts of different stages of development, special cars, benchmark cars from other companies, and just a plethora of eye candy. I also did not get a chance to see the normal EU Focus up close. There were a ton of them there!

There was no official word about the Kuga, but I think it can be assumed with all that is going on. Not sure if the Escape name will stay, either one is fine. I actually like Escape better. As usual, nothing is ever said official until it is presented to the public. I saw many things that may be coming, and I would bet chances are high that they are.

[focusse]

As much as I adore the new Fiesta I am concerned about what Ford will do if it does not sell very well here in the U.S. Do they eventually pull the plug on it and close the Cuautitlan plant down in a few years? They have to sell x number of these cars to make money on them. I know Ford is investing a ton of money to remake and retool the Cuautitlan plant in Mexico specifically to make the Fiesta. I get the feeling sometimes that Ford management is just holding their breath about gas prices. The thinking might be if gas prices are high the car will sell well and if they drop as they seem to always do in the autumn/winter then sales will wane. Americans always seem to get complacent and go back to their old ways of buying gas guzzlers when gas goes to $2 a gallon and then start buying fuel efficient cars when gas gets to $3 a gallon or more. Excellent case in point: Honda sold a record 53,299 Civic's in May 2008 when gas got really expensive and every automaker was nearly selling out of their small, fuel efficient cars. Ford, Honda, Toyota, etc all cranked up production of their subcompact and compact cars. Honda even opened a new plant in Indiana dedicated strictly to Civic production. Then crude oil and subsequently gas prices plunged in the fall of 2008 and now Honda has a massive surplus of Civic's. This is a really tough way to run your auto company when gas prices yo-yo so drastically from one extreme to another.

As impressive as the new Fiesta is I can't wait to see what they are doing with the all new 2011 Focus. Auto Express UK posted some pics last month of what they believe the all new Focus 5 door hatchback will look like and it looks really stunning! Wonder what major auto show the new Focus will debut at? If I was a betting man I'd say NAIAS in Detroit in January 2010.

[golf strom]

Originally Posted by BRGT350

Back from Ford, and I can tell you that very little is being changed. I personally met the engineer working on the Fiesta suspension, and the changes he is making is to keep the handling the same as the EU models. The US cars are getting a little bit heavier up front due to some revised crash structure, and the suspension changes are to keep the car the same as the EU car. Anyone who has taken a HS physics class will know that adding a little weight a far distance from the cg makes a big difference, so the springs are being adjusted accordingly.

After seeing about a million Mondeo's, I think I see the direction of the upper grille, and I am going to be ok with that. It matches what I have been told, and the Verve concept. The other thing about my trip yesterday is that whenever I went to a place that I could not take my camera, I saw only EU cars. Kuga's, Mondeo's, Foci, and Fiesta's. I thought I was in Europe, and that is a good thing.

I have no info on the dash or anything else on the car, but I do know that some of the pictures and my review of the interior was in the design studio as the US team is working on the car.

I was also able to meet some very important people yesterday, and I can tell you that good things are coming and motorsports is a huge part of the new Ford. Meetings are going on about the global small car performance market.

I believe that you posted (in another thread) that the Euro suspension characteristics were going to be retained AS IS (even on the basic models) with the only changes being to account for the slight additional weight of the US car. This makes me really encouraged, because on the MKI Focus, Ford Dearborn changed various bushings and strut compression and rebound specs to make the car "more comfortable" for US drivers. The car still was a really nice handling vehicle compared to its competitiors at the time, but it took the excitement out of the product, and just made it decent. so you can't say that I have nothing positive to say about the US team responsible for the US spec car.

I still am not encouraged about the redesign of the seats, period. If when the US model with ALTERED spec seating comes around, I take a drive in it and I'm impressed, compared to what I know of the previous gen Fiesta seats, I will eat my hat on youtube for all you guys!!!!! I hope I am wrong about my concerns but I know enough about the car industry that I doubt I should believe anything else.

I don't care at all about deletions of things like the mutifunction display in the center dash or Sync and the like, I'm interested in a small Ford that is fairly basic in content ,yet has nice component quality and will be durable at a REASONABLE, NOT CHEAP price. I want value in my next small car, not the cheapest ride available.

KEEP SMALL, THOUGHTFUL TOUCHES THAT ARE CHEAP TO INCLUDE (WILL COST FORD MORE TO CHANGE OR REDESIGN)

sspl
rear fog
manual leveled headlamps
integrated "standlicht" (parking lamp) in high beam HL reflector .

I'm certain that changing the manufacturing processes for these items will actually cost Ford more than leaving them as is. All are DOT legal 50 states.

Ford planned on manufacturing the small diesel engine in mexico (for the Fiesta )along side the gas block so if Ford wants to create a new market they have the chance to do that and become a leader beating VW where it hurts becaice sadly VW has not seen fit to bring their excellent small diesels to the USA in a b class car, THEIR LOSS indeed.


One final note about making changes because a few items might "confuse" some potential buyers.

DON'T DO IT Ford!!!!!

For the few things that are more common to Europe than the US make sure that the pre delivery to the customer comes with a clear explanation and maybe a couple of "tags" attached to said items that will clearly explain their use and function. Of couse the sales person should stress that the customer should read the entire owner's manual for the full enjoyment of their new vehicle and that if they have any questions to contact them if need be for additional assistance.

I never have thought that car owner's manuals (in general) have been thought out very well over the years, Ford should make the best effort possible to make the manual thorough yet inviting to read with a "quick reference" guide at the front with the detailed sections in a seperate section.
Also, make sure the editing is done correctly, I have seen so many sloppy editing jobs of OMs over the years, with critical, information either incorrect and/or omitted completely.

[GhiaFan]

When I used to lease Volvo's in addition to the usual manual, they gave out manuals on a CD. Ithought this was a brilliant idea.

[golf strom]

Originally Posted by GhiaFan

When I used to lease Volvo's in addition to the usual manual, they gave out manuals on a CD. Ithought this was a brilliant idea.

I too think this is a good idea if the cost isn't too high.

But as far as the traditional paper OM they need to make it a DESIRABLE read (as much possible) Use a "ring binder" style . A great idea is to focus on some of the more interesting (european features ) that make the car unique and carefully detail exactly WHAT the feature does and how you make it function using the controls! They could use a side bar technique with eye catching graphics or the like. Apply this thought to the CD if Ford chooses to supply one.

If the owner is satisfied about how all features and items function it will equal very good CSI scores from the likes of JDP and the like.

Most Mericans don't like to read anymore, I know, especially car owner's manuals, but lets try and make this an exception.

[PowerShift]

Originally Posted by golf strom

I don't care at all about deletions of things like the mutifunction display in the center dash or Sync and the like, I'm interested in a small Ford that is fairly basic in content ,yet has nice component quality and will be durable at a REASONABLE, NOT CHEAP price. I want value in my next small car, not the cheapest ride available.

100% Agree.

I want simplicity not cheapness. I'd rather put money into higher quality and better engineering than comfort features. Sadly, most American customers are the opposite. That's why we get so many cheaply built little cars with options like sunroofs and heated seats.

[golf strom]

Originally Posted by PowerShift

100% Agree.

I want simplicity not cheapness. I'd rather put money into higher quality and better engineering than comfort features. Sadly, most American customers are the opposite. That's why we get so many cheaply built little cars with options like sunroofs and heated seats.

Glad to see there ARE others that are on the same page as I am.


That is WHY I fell in love with VW products many years ago. While the cars were spartan, (Rabbit Golf, GTI, Sirocco, Jetta from the late 70's til about early-mid 90's) they were generally very well built and the components were of very high quality. This thinking unfortunately had changed at VW from 1998 on, where style started to be more hightly valued than substance, only recently has this changed once again, but the problem with VWoA is that they are putting so much extra (non essential) content into the cars it is making them no longer as affordable. You can get spartan versions in Europe, but VWoA (the US distributor) is too dense and idiotic to realize they are slowly destroying the brands viability here. I currently have a 96 VW Golf GL with the 2L 4 cylinder engine. It is a basic but very high quality product and has stood the test of time well with basic maintenance.

I remember when I used to post observations like this over on http://www.vwvortex.com (the car lounge) I was attacked endlessly and the "masters" of the site banned me for simply voicing this opinion.

FoE has always followed the path that other German car makers went down which generally was that the basic platform (and components ) had to be of very high quality with the customer paying a premium for extra gadgets (navi , power accessories, sunroof, other geegaws) So if you were a savvy car guy that actually LIKE to drive you could get a very nice driver (Golf, Escort, Focus, ect) and not have to pay through the nose for it IF you could live without the extra fluff.

The MKI VW Golf GTI was a prime example of this, I had the lesser quality US built Rabbit GTI, but even it was much higher quality than other competitors at the time.