The "Let's keep Dearborn from taking the goodness out of the FoE Fiesta" Thread!

[golf strom]

I read the interview that Mark had with Sam De La Garza and although he was somewhat vague I am hopeful that the car will be intact, including the grill/hood design and the seating as well as some of the neat little features like the rear fog and single side parking lamps that we all love in the Euro spec model.

I was under the impression that Sam was vague due to Ford's desire to keep the competition from knowing what the final design of the car will be, that's understandable and fine with me.

[streetfiesta]

I would like to agree with the "simplicity, not cheapness" quote. I don't need fancy gizmos, I want quality, durability, and performance.

[golf strom]

Originally Posted by streetfiesta

I would like to agree with the "simplicity, not cheapness" quote. I don't need fancy gizmos, I want quality, durability, and performance.

Thanks for joining the growing numbers of car buyers that feel the same way.!!!!!!!!

I'll gladly pass up the trinkets and fluff (fancy power options, electronic gimmicks) for high quality durable hard parts (alternators, water pumps, transmission items, ect)

[tcl]

Originally Posted by PowerShift

It will be a different seat for the US. There's a YouTube video about it:
YouTube - The Science of Seat Comfort - Part 4

The head rest on the US spec seat looks to be angled forward more sharply than the Euro version. That can be a problem for people like my wife who drive with the seat relatively upright unless the head rest rake is adjustable. If Ford is reading this board, please note that the head rest angle kept us from considering a Focus two years ago.

[golf strom]

Originally Posted by tcl

The head rest on the US spec seat looks to be angled forward more sharply than the Euro version. That can be a problem for people like my wife who drive with the seat relatively upright unless the head rest rake is adjustable. If Ford is reading this board, please note that the head rest angle kept us from considering a Focus two years ago.

I'm really concerned about the seating issue !!!!!!!!!!!

I have made numerous comments about Dearborn changing one of the most important parts of this car. I have only noted ONE slightly negative comment about the euro spec seat. All others have been GLOWING positive comments about the excellent euro spec front seats.

I really hope they have reconsidered the change. The seating if it is significantly changed from the excellent euro chairs may be the end of my consideration of an otherwise excellent offering.

The bottom line....if the euro seats are good enough for the ROW they are DEFINITELY good enough for the US.

[FiestaFan]

Personally I don't think the US Fiesta will be watered down much at all. The worst I see happening is the hatch getting the sedan's grille (which wouldn't fit the hatch's shape very well, IMO) and maybe a hard plastic dashtop. The seats will be fine, I really don't see the big deal. Going by the video, they look better if anything compared to the Euro seats, though as far as comfort is concerned the ONLY way you'll know they're better or worse is if you sit in them. My main concern is the suspension settings, and since it's been confirmed the only changes will be to accommodate the heavier crash structure, I'm not worried. It'll still drive brilliantly, and that's what really matters.

[Mark Kleis]

Originally Posted by golf strom

I'm really concerned about the seating issue !!!!!!!!!!!

I have made numerous comments about Dearborn changing one of the most important parts of this car. I have only noted ONE slightly negative comment about the euro spec seat. All others have been GLOWING positive comments about the excellent euro spec front seats.

I really hope they have reconsidered the change. The seating if it is significantly changed from the excellent euro chairs may be the end of my consideration of an otherwise excellent offering.

The bottom line....if the euro seats are good enough for the ROW they are DEFINITELY good enough for the US.

One? I posted about 8-9 different people, and I think the number is closer to 11 now that told me the seat could be broader without me telling them I thought it was narrow.

I know you are beyond set on the idea that you want "Euro seats as-is or nothing" but you seriously should try at least considering the fact that they could be broader and still not be flat like you fear. You haven't even sat in them yet, have you?

[golf strom]

Originally Posted by Mark Kleis

One? I posted about 8-9 different people, and I think the number is closer to 11 now that told me the seat could be broader without me telling them I thought it was narrow.

I know you are beyond set on the idea that you want "Euro seats as-is or nothing" but you seriously should try at least considering the fact that they could be broader and still not be flat like you fear. You haven't even sat in them yet, have you?

Wow, funny how all of a sudden out of nowhere all these posters show up and say the same thing you do. Only after a equal number of people complained about the change in the excellent euro seat BEFORE HAND. Interesting because Europeans that in many cases are bigger than Americans are buying the car in droves. I call BS on this so called small group of people calling for a broader seat. Probably just Ford PR people posting here to back up the change. Defensive much Dearborn???!?!?! YES!!!!! or perhaps "agents" that want to keep driving that free ride.

Tell you what.....I have closely watched the Fiesta forums in other countries and NONE of them that I have monitored (and that is quite a few ) have ever mentioned that the seat is too narrow. Utter nonsense! I can promise you that the Ford engineers in Koln did their job right the first time.


Lets not forget that Ford Dearborn was telling us that it WOULD NOT CHANGE THINGS EXCEPT TO COMPLY WITH DOT AND EPA REGS

Broken promises today lead to LOST sales tomorrow. Is Dearborn doomed to repeat Its historic gaffes? Seems that way.

[Mark Kleis]

Originally Posted by golf strom

Wow, funny how all of a sudden out of nowhere all these posters show up and say the same thing you do. Only after a equal number of people complained about the change in the excellent euro seat BEFORE HAND. Interesting because Europeans that in many cases are bigger than Americans are buying the car in droves. I call BS on this so called small group of people calling for a broader seat. Probably just Ford PR people posting here to back up the change. Defensive much Dearborn???!?!?! YES!!!!! or perhaps "agents" that want to keep driving that free ride.

Tell you what.....I have closely watched the Fiesta forums in other countries and NONE of them that I have monitored (and that is quite a few ) have ever mentioned that the seat is too narrow. Utter nonsense! I can promise you that the Ford engineers in Koln did their job right the first time.


Lets not forget that Ford Dearborn was telling us that it WOULD NOT CHANGE THINGS EXCEPT TO COMPLY WITH DOT AND EPA REGS

Broken promises today lead to LOST sales tomorrow. Is Dearborn doomed to repeat Its historic gaffes? Seems that way.

Wow, let me get this straight, you are accusing me of creating fake accounts and posting here to back myself up? Why don't you ask the ADMIN to run an IP check on said accounts and enjoy your crow.

The reason I find that particularly hilarious is that the 10+ people I was referring to had nothing AT ALL to do with this site. I am talking about people (unlike you) who have actually sat in my Fiesta and without me saying or suggesting anything, in fact, these were my exact words for every single one, "So what do you think about the seats?"

You tell me, is that question leading them to a specific answer? Sure seems broad to me.

As for the number of supports for the Euro seat on the board, I'm pretty sure only ONE has actually sat in the car, and Bryan (no offense, seriously) is a pretty small guy.

I on the other hand have had 10 or more people of varying size sit in my car that all agreed the seat was too narrow on the top. Mind you, one of them was an incredibly accomplished FORD ENGINEER that gave me the technical explanation for why the seat was too narrow before I EVER said anything to him about my dislike of it.

But I guess that is part of my conspiracy to serve Ford too, right?

Bottom line, as I explained before, there aren't two seat types in the world- it isn't completely flat, or too narrow, there is a happy medium.

I believe that the Ford seats in the US have at times been too flat and broad- we are in agreement here. I also believe this seat would HOLD YOU IN YOUR SEAT BETTER if it was wider, but still had tall side bolsters.

Look at it this way, if your body was represented by this: O and you had to sit in a seat that looked like this: ,_, you likely wouldn't be terribly supported as you could roll over the low bolsters. Consider that the "American" style seat.

Then consider this: \/ as a seat shape, and try and fit your O body into it. Would you agree that since you wouldn't be able to push all the way to the back of the seat it too would lack in support? Consider that the current Fiesta seat.

Now consider a shape like so: \_/ and fit your O inside. See that? Add some broadness/width, but retain the bolsters, and you get the best of both worlds: support and room. THAT is the seat that I think the US Fiesta should get. Not flat (like you fear and think I want), and not narrow like the Euro seat, but a mix of the two.

No conspiracy, just logical theory.

[golf strom]

Originally Posted by Mark Kleis

Wow, let me get this straight, you are accusing me of creating fake accounts and posting here to back myself up?

No, Mark I don't think you "made up" fake accounts on FF to achieve this aim.
I would however believe that a number of Ford Dearborn loyalists (employees, agents, ect) may have felt the need to back this change up because of all the negative talk AGAINST the modification earlier on this forum. It has been extensive, you have to admit.

I don't blame Ford Dearborn for trying to make their case, although it seems that some on FF seem mighty defensive when negative comments are made on various possible changes. "Defensiveness" is a reaction almost always means that there is an inherent weakness in the reasoning for such a change.

The reason I find that particularly hilarious is that the 10+ people I was referring to had nothing AT ALL to do with this site. I am talking about people (unlike you) who have actually sat in my Fiesta and without me saying or suggesting anything, in fact, these were my exact words for every single one, "So what do you think about the seats?"

Until recently I don't recall you mentioning ANY one backing up your single comment or observation on the euro seats, not that there weren't any, but I don't remember you mentioning them.

As for the number of supports for the Euro seat on the board, I'm pretty sure only ONE has actually sat in the car, and Bryan (no offense, seriously) is a pretty small guy.

However, the number of those supporting the euro seating among those who are actually buying whether in Europe or the ROW seem to be vastly in favor of the ROW seating, hordes of customers are buying the car, and lots of them are bigger people than the average American, just look at the Netherlands... These folks are quite a bit bigger than the average American and it hasn't stopped them buying the car. The important thing is that these customers are actually sitting in the seats and yes BUYING the car with those euro seats! I think if there was an issue with the seating dimensions that buyers would be rejecting the car and looking elsewhere (plenty of competition in ROW for subcompact class products) and FoE would havequickly made changes to the chairs!

I on the other hand have had 10 or more people of varying size sit in my car that all agreed the seat was too narrow on the top. Mind you, one of them was an incredibly accomplished FORD ENGINEER that gave me the technical explanation for why the seat was too narrow before I EVER said anything to him about my dislike of it.\

So lets see 10 folks you know in the US, plus one US engineer. Ummm, Sorry but I'll gladly take the vote of millions of people in the Rest of World (big and small) that have purchased the Fiesta, and a vast collection of FoE engineers that produced the euro seat.

But I guess that is part of my conspiracy to serve Ford too, right?

I don't think there is a "conspiracy". I think that some US engineers need to keep their jobs and Dearborn has mucked up many a FoE product before. It's nothing more than turf protection if you ask me.

I believe that the Ford seats in the US have at times been too flat and broad- we are in agreement here. I also believe this seat would HOLD YOU IN YOUR SEAT BETTER if it was wider, but still had tall side bolsters.

I agree with you, but I asked you if that un named engineer you talked to was willing to look at a enlarged scale version of the euro seat with only the dimensions changed, not the seat contours, and you never responded.

It was clear that the US style seat they were showing was very flat and unsupportive looking not to mention that the seat bottom foam padding looked very skimpy. Hardly a comfortable seat for these big Americans you keep talking about.

So Mark...are they simply going to create a larger scale version of the euro seat for the US car with no significant changes (seat bottom padding, side bolsters, ect) ?

Sorry Mark but you write in a very defensive manner and that signals bad things to me about where Ford is coming from on the matter of the Fiesta. No conspiracy there, just human nature revealing itself.