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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I love this because all along I IMPLORED Ford to make as few changes to the US Fiesta as possible...not only because it is what made the EU car excellent but it allows for less possibility of problems with parts.....

The original design (infinitely adj knob control ) was good enough that they have been using it on EU Fords for decades, but Audi, VW, Mercedes, and BMW use it as well.


The question is WHEN will Dearborn learn this lesson...I guess they never will!
 

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I read somewhere shortly after the US Fiesta reviews started coming in that Ford said the Euro knob worked better than the one they designed for the US, and that they were going to switch the US over to the knob setup sometime soon. We'll see if it actually happens
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I read somewhere shortly after the US Fiesta reviews started coming in that Ford said the Euro knob worked better than the one they designed for the US, and that they were going to switch the US over to the knob setup sometime soon. We'll see if it actually happens
NO DUH??? Did they have to pay a consulting fee to figure that out!!???;)

That in itself makes you wonder WHOM is making such decisions at Ford....

I have to believe that they hired some quack consulting agency (what consulting agency isn't a quack if you ask me) to determine the amazing differences between buyers in the US and Europe....in this catagory there are just about NONE to be exact...Most all potential buyers of the Fiesta in the USA want a car that is as close to possible as the ORIGINAL product!!!!
 

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But, whatever flaw they found probably isn't related to the design rather it is some sort of hiccup in the production process which could have just as easily occurred on the knob because if it were we would be getting a recall for the fiestas already on the road.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
But, whatever flaw they found probably isn't related to the design rather it is some sort of hiccup in the production process which could have just as easily occurred on the knob because if it were we would be getting a recall for the fiestas already on the road.

The REALITY is that the senario you mention did NOT happen...



The EU part (knob) has never had production problems and has not be recalled or caused a stop sale. That is all that matters to the customer.
 

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The REALITY is that the senario you mention did NOT happen...



The EU part (knob) has never had production problems and has not be recalled or caused a stop sale. That is all that matters to the customer.
The REALITY is that the seat is NOT the same as the EU seat. It's not just the lever. The seat itself was modified for better crash safety performance than your precious EU seat. It's actually safer. All Ford vehicles without power seats have had the lever, and I've yet to see anyone else complain about it.

"That is all that matters to the customer" - nobody buys a car for its seat levers. If they do, I pity them.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
The REALITY is that the seat is NOT the same as the EU seat. It's not just the lever. The seat itself was modified for better crash safety performance than your precious EU seat. It's actually safer. .
Source...?

Please provide the Ford documents that indicate the US seat is safer than the EU seat.

I'd LOVE to see them...But I bet you can't provide them because what you indicate simply isn't true....

The EU seats of all FoE Ford products are as safe or safer than that of ones designed only for the US market...The Euro N Cap proves this.
 

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The REALITY is that the senario you mention did NOT happen...



The EU part (knob) has never had production problems and has not be recalled or caused a stop sale. That is all that matters to the customer.
The REALITY is that the first however many units (the total number they have sold in South and North America)they have sold have no problems, which probably means there was a production hiccup of some sort
 

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Discussion Starter #9
FACT!

Bottom line is that Ford is replacing the US levers.....



They have never had to replace a knob on the EU seat.


That in my view makes the EU parts better designed...and also likely more safe as well.
 

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It's a production problem, not a design problem. A set lever knob could just as easily been the source of a production quality issue. Every once in a while almost every manufacturer gets a bad supply of parts. It's up to them to find out what the problem is and correct it.

Anybody know if the European Fiesta has been the subject of any recalls? Or is every European Fiesta built flawlessly and never needs to see the inside of a service bay, as I think golf strom seems to believe.
 

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FACT!

Everything in this thread is baseless speculation and should be treated as such. Whether a knob is "better" than a lever is strictly a matter of opinion as is the merit of Ford's decision to change the design for the US.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
FACT!

Everything in this thread is baseless speculation and should be treated as such. Whether a knob is "better" than a lever is strictly a matter of opinion as is the merit of Ford's decision to change the design for the US.

If LUXURY cars like Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Volvo, and FoE choose to go with a infinitely adjustable knob..I'd tend to agree with them...A lever adjustment only gives a limited amount of seat back adjustment range and when I have tried to get a comfortable position with cars that use a lever I never can seem to find it, while the infinite knob does the job perfectly and easily every time.


Sorry but once again FoE in Koln has been making GREAT passenger cars for decades while their US division has not....FoE made the right choice in the first place.
 

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If LUXURY cars like Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Volvo, and FoE choose to go with a infinitely adjustable knob..I'd tend to agree with them...A lever adjustment only gives a limited amount of seat back adjustment range and when I have tried to get a comfortable position with cars that use a lever I never can seem to find it, while the infinite knob does the job perfectly and easily every time.
Ah, that's a good point I suppose. I was thinking that a lever-type system was a bit more intuitive to use but I honestly didn't care, but if it doesn't allow for the same flexibility of a knob setup then I suppose there's a worthwhile difference. Still not enough to really bug me though.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Perhaps I have a sensitive back? But honestly I do find is very difficult to find a suitable level of comfort without the fine tuning adjustment of the infinite knob on a seat back. This can make or break a car deal for me. I hope Dearborn changes it back to a knob control next year!


But little things like this seat adjustment matter to me again thoughtful details that European cars are known for it what makes the Fiesta compelling to many import buyers...when you start playing with a winning design you can drastically change the character of a car... Ford is guilty of this with the Fiesta in the USA...I think it is still a good product, just not as good as before all the changes.
 

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From what I was told, the knob vs. lever change was made because of U.S. customer feedback from marketing clinics.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
From what I was told, the knob vs. lever change was made because of U.S. customer feedback from marketing clinics.

I can believe this....


This is the problem with using contract companies...and I am sure that these marketing research and consulting organizations try to show that their research was valuable even if they manipulate the data and testing to achieve it which probably happens very often.

This is not just a Ford problem it is a consumer industry issue....


If I was Ford I would have looked at what other very notable car makers used in their products. I'm sure that BMW, Audi, Mercedes, ect spent plenty on such research and since the customers that purchase their products are the most demanding (these buyers in Europe are somewhat similar to import buyers in the USA) I'm sure they got it right in the first place. Of course they did!!!!!!!

The other part of the story is that most ALL potential customers that are considering the Fiesta in the USA are most attracted to the car especially because of its European heritage...if folks want an appliance they can readily buy any Yaris, Fit, or Accent.
 

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The other part of the story is that most ALL potential customers that are considering the Fiesta in the USA are most attracted to the car especially because of its European heritage...
I believe you are overestimating the wants of members of automotive forums vs. the general buying public at large.

if folks want an appliance they can readily buy any Yaris, Fit, or Accent.
And, as a car enthusiast, and an owner of a first generation Fit, I think you're underestimating the fun-to-drive factor of that car. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I believe you are overestimating the wants of members of automotive forums vs. the general buying public at large.
Yeah kind of like how Ford ( or more likely their marketing research firm ) predicted that more Fiesta buyers in the US would buy the sedan over the HB version....as Ford has admitted...they were WRONG! :D


And, as a car enthusiast, and an owner of a first generation Fit, I think you're underestimating the fun-to-drive factor of that car. ;)

I really didn't intend to include the Fit BUT the when it comes to thoughful details and refinement it does seem to be more related to the other models I mentioned.
 

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Yeah kind of like how Ford ( or more likely their marketing research firm ) predicted that more Fiesta buyers in the US would buy the sedan over the HB version....as Ford has admitted...they were WRONG! :D
I'm not sure what the current ratio of ordered cars is… if that has been mentioned somewhere, please post it. I'd like to see it.

But, I do know that at one of the pre-launch events I attended, Ford said they were expecting/planning for, an almost even 50/50 mix of sedan:hatch orders.

That is higher mix of hatches than other companies (even Ford, on the Focus) usually project.

I also think that early adopters would tend to be hatch fans. Once there is at LEAST 6 months of sales data, I'd like to see the numbers.
 

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The other part of the story is that most ALL potential customers that are considering the Fiesta in the USA are most attracted to the car especially because of its European heritage...if folks want an appliance they can readily buy any Yaris, Fit, or Accent.
No, initial buyers are considering the Fiesta because it is a small inexpensive car that is good and not a "penalty box" like some other small cars. "European heritage" or not.
 
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