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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I know some (someone:rolleyes:) will argue that "in the real world" larger, stronger, better designed bumpers do nothing to decrease damage to a car when in an accident but here is a good press release from Ford that says otherwise. Hopefully the redesign of the NA Fiesta's bumpers will result in lower insurance rates for us.


http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=32593


"......Ford Focus maintained its hold on the top spot in the four-door small car segment thanks in part to a bumper design improvements. "Ford's repair-ability experts and safety engineers made the Focus's bumper bigger and stronger to better protect adjacent components," said Larry Coan, Ford damageability engineer. "The new technology center will help us build on these leading efforts.""
 

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I think the Fiesta's bumper did many things.
1) moved crash structure up since our height requirement is different (higher crash test rating, higher insurance rating)
2) smaller air intake (which I don't like) helped with aerodynamics (mpg +) and reduction in NVH from smaller total opening.
3) Reduction in underhood pressures since less air is entering the radiator, which results in less lift at speeds over 60 mph.
4) most likely improved surrounding components in a minor crash, reducing insurance rates.
5) provided an oppertunity for aftermarket companies to make bumper that looks like the EU version to make me smile, even if it reduces mpg, increases NVH, and increases under hood pressures. :D Ok, the last one is not really true.

Ok, Sunday night, someone will start posting with zero data to support his claims and say I am wrong and DeeeeeerrrBooorrrn! messed up and only did the change to keep people busy. I will ask for data to support his claim, and he won't have any.

The aero comments were something I never heard from Ford, but given my extensive research into air flow regarding coolant systems, it sure makes sense! Also, the small opening on the EU car just above the bumper most likely increased wind noise since the air's velocity was increased thru the opening. The radiator behind the opening causes turbulance, which requires power to overcome. Directing the air flow over the hood just above the bumper reduces the turbulance, lowers wind noise, and requires less power to overcome the turbulant flow. That resulted in a MPG increase since the efficiency is increased due to lower drag. Since there is less air flow entering the engine compartment, there is less to remove (m dot in = m dot out). The larger volume of air increases the underhood pressures, causing lift. From a technical standpoint, the US bumper cover is better. From a looks standpoint, I don't care for it at all. I struggle with form follows function on this one.
 

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I'm going to have to hunt down pictures of my accident to show exactly how worthless 5mph impact bumpers are. An accident which cost me 1000 dollars out of my pocket to replace a new bumper new crash foam, new passenger side tail lamp unit, and blend paint the back of my Focus. The accident, backing into an illegally parked Crown Victoria at speeds of less than 5mph.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
"Ok, Sunday night, someone will start posting with zero data to support his claims and say I am wrong and DeeeeeerrrBooorrrn! messed up and only did the change to keep people busy. I will ask for data to support his claim, and he won't have any. "

Or, even sooner than Sunday, someone else will state that their "one" experience trumps all other statistics even if their "one" experience is on a older generation car not mentioned in the press release.;)

Everybody chime in now and say it;

DEARBOOOOORNNN!!!
 

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my understanding of the different safety design goals EU vs N.A., is that EU goal is to protect the occupants, hence crumple zone technology so car absorbs crash impact not the occupants,
and N.A. seems to be controlled by insurance company priority which is save the car from damage goal, and deal with occupant safety by installing larger air bags and some lower dash design elements. Hopefully the larger airbags will suffice in helping the occupant deal with the extra forces from the impact.
 

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Based on my driving record etc. going from a taurus to a hatchback ford fiesta my insurance went up less than $100 per six months!
 

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My rate should probably just go down with the Fiesta. No accidents, no tickets, and prior to the Fiesta I have been driving Focuses. Insurance is no big deal for me now. Nothing like being 16 and driving a Mustang to see how expensive insurance can be! Thankfully, 15 years of a perfect record pays off and insurance is pretty cheap for me.
 

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NCAP safety standards focus not only on occupant safety but pedestrian safety as well. NHTSA focus is on making sure the car can somewhat survive an accident with no regards for occupants.
 

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Lets all say it together now...

D-E-A-R-B-O-R-N

How 'bout DEERBORN

Yeah, I figured U.S. regs were all about helping/protecting the insurance industry. That's all our politicians do is pander to the insurance companies. I'd much rather adopt the European NCAP standards here in NA.

Bryan, I think you might end up getting that response earlier than Sunday night. Should be interesting nonetheless.

Go Ford! Go Focus! Go Fiesta!
 

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did I mention that VeeDubs are made by angels who play harps and a ray of light comes down on them while you drive? Yeah, DEARBORN changed the Fiesta so that doesn't happen so there is no confusion between a VW and a Ford. Yep, and they only made changes to make ex VW owners whine on message boards.

Does NCAP deal with pedestrian impacts, or is that different? I know the EU front bumper, hood, engine placement (tilted way back), and wiper design was for pedestrian impact. The EU wipers did not pass US clearing standards and needed new arms (remember all the mules running around with those goofy arms on the passenger side?). The large distance between the hood and the valve cover and shock towers was also to provide a maximum distance between the pedestrian and the "hard point" on impact. All of that stayed with the US version. The US Fiesta really is a good blend of US and European safety since it kept much of the pedestrian safety but added specific US items.

I know somebody won't listen to anything posted and just claim the changes were uncalled for and there is no standards or regulations for US cars, just made up ones that DEARBOOOOOOOOOOOORN creates. :rolleyes:

Nevermind, Mr Birdman posted about the NCAP and pedestrian. I wasn't sure if there was another safety cert for pedestrians or if it was included in NCAP.
 

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One reason why the Euro Fiesta is so much more expensive is the pedestrian safety systems installed on it. If you didn't catch the article of the 18K repair bill on a Nissan GTR you should. Even though the damage was litteraly minor a cracked bumper, the PSS went off and most of the components needed replacement. When the bumper is hit, sensors go off and cause the back of the hood to fly up off of its hinges via shocks or struts if I remember right how it works, making the hood safer and softer to land on the car. One of the better smarter features of Euro cars that NHTSA neglects to look at.
 

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Front impact
The passenger compartment remained stable in the impact, the windscreen pillar being displaced rearwards by only 4mm after the test. Dummy readings indicated good protection of the knees and femurs of both driver and passenger, the driver benefitting from a knee protecting airbag. Ford demonstrated that a similar level of protection would be provided to occupants of different sizes and to those sat in different positions.

Pedestrian
The bumper scored maximum points for its protection of pedestrians' legs. In most areas where a child's head might strike, the bonnet was rated as fair. However, protection was predominantly poor in those areas around the base of the windscreen likely to be struck by an adult's head.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
One reason why the Euro Fiesta is so much more expensive is the pedestrian safety systems installed on it. If you didn't catch the article of the 18K repair bill on a Nissan GTR you should. Even though the damage was litteraly minor a cracked bumper, the PSS went off and most of the components needed replacement. When the bumper is hit, sensors go off and cause the back of the hood to fly up off of its hinges via shocks or struts if I remember right how it works, making the hood safer and softer to land on the car. One of the better smarter features of Euro cars that NHTSA neglects to look at.
Are you serious? Really?

You were complaining about your $1000 repair bill on your old Focus and now you endorse safety features that could raise your repair costs to $18,000 and say it's smart.
 

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Internet rumormongering. Please cite facts that a)show how much passenger protection add to the price of the car, and b)how they were deleted in the US Spec Fiesta.

One reason why the Euro Fiesta is so much more expensive is the pedestrian safety systems installed on it. If you didn't catch the article of the 18K repair bill on a Nissan GTR you should. Even though the damage was litteraly minor a cracked bumper, the PSS went off and most of the components needed replacement. When the bumper is hit, sensors go off and cause the back of the hood to fly up off of its hinges via shocks or struts if I remember right how it works, making the hood safer and softer to land on the car. One of the better smarter features of Euro cars that NHTSA neglects to look at.
 

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I've consistantly stated he that if the changes WERE mandated by DOT and EPAI am completely in favor of giving those changes a pass. After all unless those regs are changed Ford and other mfr's must adhere to them.

Bottom line was that Ford made comments to the press that the Fiesta WOULD NOT BE ALTERED EXCEPT FOR MANDATED DOT AND EPA REGS!

The EU car was and IS FANTASTIC just as it is, and except for DOT and EPA regs and perhaps a few trinkets to please the gadget crowd (sync) it should have been untouched.

I can't wait to test drive the US version and compare it with the EU version I drove just a short time ago.

The fact is that just because a few "pundits" on this forum CLAIM that alterations to the car make it better somehow doesn't make it true. The proof will come in the test drive of the US version shortly.
 

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Sure, 50+ reviews by well known (and lesser known) car reviewers is no match for a VW guy who just knows that the EU car must be better, no matter what.
 

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Sure, 50+ reviews by well known (and lesser known) car reviewers is no match for a VW guy who just knows that the EU car must be better, no matter what.
At least I can say I actually DROVE the EU version compared to others here. I can't wait to get my hands on the US version...I can tell you that I will be BLUNTLY honest in my comparo.:D;)
 

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Bottom line was that Ford made comments to the press that the Fiesta WOULD NOT BE ALTERED EXCEPT FOR MANDATED DOT AND EPA REGS!
So if along the way to meeting NA requirements it happened that it also stiffened the the structure of the vehicle and they decided to add some NVH or other enhancements this would be a bad thing? Ever heard of continual improvement?

News flash - no secret memo in Dearborn to change the vehicle just so it pisses Golf Strom off.
 

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So if along the way to meeting NA requirements it happened that it also stiffened the the structure of the vehicle and they decided to add some NVH or other enhancements this would be a bad thing? Ever heard of continual improvement?

.

If it was done to meet DOT regs then there is nothing that can be done to prevent it from be implimented in the car....BTW additional "stiffening" after the final design will almost certainly increase vehicle weight as well.

The RoW including the automotive press hailed the car from the get go as an amazing product..

Unless you have to (due to regs) why mess with success?
 
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