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Discussion Starter #1
Fair use credit: IIHS

Beginning with 2011 models built after July 2010, design changes were made to improve the robustness of the outside door handles to minimize the possibility of the handles starting to activate in side impact crashes (note: information about when a specific vehicle was manufactured is on the certification label typically affixed to the car on or near the driver door).

This is the first place I have actually seen them speak specifically about it being the "outside" door handle.

Can anyone with access to a shop manual verify the following part numbers, and if they are for the handle, or internal latch assembly please:

Front RH – BE8Z-5426684-A
Front LH – BE8Z-5426685-A
Rear RH – BE8Z-5426684-D
Rear LH – BE8Z-5426685-C

Thanks.
 

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"Improved robustness." Very specific verbage that. I also like the use of the words "minimize" (implying post-July vehicles can have the same risk, oh noes!) and "possible" (as in not-fully tested/proved).

Edit: No access to a shop, sorry!
 

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Fair use credit: IIHS

Beginning with 2011 models built after July 2010, design changes were made to improve the robustness of the outside door handles to minimize the possibility of the handles starting to activate in side impact crashes (note: information about when a specific vehicle was manufactured is on the certification label typically affixed to the car on or near the driver door).

This is the first place I have actually seen them speak specifically about it being the "outside" door handle.

Can anyone with access to a shop manual verify the following part numbers, and if they are for the handle, or internal latch assembly please:

Front RH – BE8Z-5426684-A
Front LH – BE8Z-5426685-A
Rear RH – BE8Z-5426684-D
Rear LH – BE8Z-5426685-C

Thanks.


We were very pleased to receive the IIHS recognition as the Top Safety Pick (first mini car to receive that award).

Please be assured that all Ford vehicles are designed to a high level of crash performance. Ford did make design changes to the door handle to further improve their robustness in crash testing. All Fiestas, including those before the design change, are safe.

The above paragraph was a direct quote from Sam during his live chat. Since the only doors on the Fiesta are the outside doors it seems to me that what the IIHS said is exactly what a Ford representative said weeks ago when asked. No headline there.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
It's not the answer to the question that has been asked over, and over and over again

We were very pleased to receive the IIHS recognition as the Top Safety Pick (first mini car to receive that award).

Please be assured that all Ford vehicles are designed to a high level of crash performance. Ford did make design changes to the door handle to further improve their robustness in crash testing. All Fiestas, including those before the design change, are safe.

The above paragraph was a direct quote from Sam during his live chat. Since the only doors on the Fiesta are the outside doors it seems to me that what the IIHS said is exactly what a Ford representative said weeks ago when asked. No headline there.
The question that has been asked over, and over again is what is the fix, and will it be made available? That is the same VERBATIM response that Sam told me on the phone. He has always completely ignored answering what is necessary to fix the car.

I got the list of parts that is required to do the fix, but they refuse to tell me where or how they are installed, just that "a Ford Authorized dealer" could get the parts and make the repair, at my expense, but the procedure was "priveleged and confidential"

Why can't they just say what the beef is?

What I don't understand is what they are afraid of? Why won't they release publicly the exact specs, reason and procedure for the fix, instead of providing a parts list, and telling me that a dealer would complete the repairs at my cost, but won't tell me what they do? This secrecy, I interpret as Ford having liability concerns.
 

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The question that has been asked over, and over again is what is the fix, and will it be made available? That is the same VERBATIM response that Sam told me on the phone. He has always completely ignored answering what is necessary to fix the car.

I got the list of parts that is required to do the fix, but they refuse to tell me where or how they are installed, just that "a Ford Authorized dealer" could get the parts and make the repair, at my expense, but the procedure was "priveleged and confidential"

Why can't they just say what the beef is?

What I don't understand is what they are afraid of? Why won't they release publicly the exact specs, reason and procedure for the fix, instead of providing a parts list, and telling me that a dealer would complete the repairs at my cost, but won't tell me what they do? This secrecy, I interpret as Ford having liability concerns.
Why the hell would an OEM release specs of a part - ANY PART - on any model for any reason? You are obviously not privy to how the auto industry works, and drawing conclusions based on such vague statements as posted only lessen your credibility.

You make it sound like the change makes the possibility of opening decrease from 1 in 2 to 1 in 6,000,000. More likely it's 1 in 5,999,999 to 1 in 6,000,000. Once again, just because a new part is MORE safe, doesn't mean the old part IS NOT safe.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
We were very pleased to receive the IIHS recognition as the Top Safety Pick (first mini car to receive that award).

Please be assured that all Ford vehicles are designed to a high level of crash performance. Ford did make design changes to the door handle to further improve their robustness in crash testing. All Fiestas, including those before the design change, are safe.

The above paragraph was a direct quote from Sam during his live chat. Since the only doors on the Fiesta are the outside doors it seems to me that what the IIHS said is exactly what a Ford representative said weeks ago when asked. No headline there.
Interesting, after doing some serious searching, I found 2 sources for this part, both list each item simply "reinforcement"

???????????? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? BE8Z5426685C FORD

This link works, despite the ???? marks...

And this....and I am not posting the link and I am xxxx out the last four digits of the phone number...but I found that they are making repairs, and this is the lady you send your parts to for re-imbursement.

To perform a verification, enter a query to the left by part number, part name, or a date range. If after verification it is determined that your part is unusable, the part may be returned on a PCS claim using the following procedures.
-File claim using proper defective reason code.
-Provide the "Unusable Parts Reference Number" and state part is defective per FMCDealer in the comments of your claim.
-Return the part to the return address when you receive "Return Authorization".
-If part is being returned to a supplier, fax "Proof of Return" to 734 591-xxxx (Att. Tonya XXXX).
*If the part was received from a FAD, the dealer must return the part to the FAD and the FAD has to file the claim with FCSD, using the above instructions.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I was not going to do this...but here it is (email addy and phone numbers left out)

The question that has been asked over, and over again is what is the fix, and will it be made available? That is the same VERBATIM response that Sam told me on the phone. He has always completely ignored answering what is necessary to fix the car.

I got the list of parts that is required to do the fix, but they refuse to tell me where or how they are installed, just that "a Ford Authorized dealer" could get the parts and make the repair, at my expense, but the procedure was "priveleged and confidential"

Why can't they just say what the beef is?

What I don't understand is what they are afraid of? Why won't they release publicly the exact specs, reason and procedure for the fix, instead of providing a parts list, and telling me that a dealer would complete the repairs at my cost, but won't tell me what they do? This secrecy, I interpret as Ford having liability concerns.
I posted the email from Ford, but removed it out of respect for the folks involved. Any of you that wish to make fun, or jeer at me can do so freely, it doesn't affect me. You can question my credibility...it doesn't ruffle my feelings any. I am just trying to make something right. Ford got caught with their pants down on this deal, the IIHS called them out, and in my opinion should have issued their rating based on their findings, instead of notifying Ford of the weakness and allowing them to correct it to receive the rating. For those of you who doubt my motives, I assure you that they are genuine. My only interest is to get the car that I paid for, and was promised. Why should I get something that is sub-standard and the next guy, paying the same price that gets the very next car off of the assembly line get a car with a safety rating of "Top Pick", and IIHS specifically excluding my car and the rest that were produced early. Then, on top of that bragging about it on their website, and then the car journalist especially Jalopnik, throwing it in the face of the loyal customers who pre-ordered.

Make fun of me all you want.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Outside shop repair...

Why the hell would an OEM release specs of a part - ANY PART - on any model for any reason? You are obviously not privy to how the auto industry works, and drawing conclusions based on such vague statements as posted only lessen your credibility.

You make it sound like the change makes the possibility of opening decrease from 1 in 2 to 1 in 6,000,000. More likely it's 1 in 5,999,999 to 1 in 6,000,000. Once again, just because a new part is MORE safe, doesn't mean the old part IS NOT safe.
I think since I own the car, I have the right to order the parts and have the work done at a body shop of my choice. If the car was in a wreck, and i picked an independent body shop for repair, they would have to release the parts and procedures for repair, once a car is released i don't see how they can keep the repair procedures proprietary.
 

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Fair use credit: IIHS

Beginning with 2011 models built after July 2010, design changes were made to improve the robustness of the outside door handles to minimize the possibility of the handles starting to activate in side impact crashes (note: information about when a specific vehicle was manufactured is on the certification label typically affixed to the car on or near the driver door).

This is the first place I have actually seen them speak specifically about it being the "outside" door handle.
This isn't exactly new information; it has been on the IIHS web site ever since they posted the Fiesta side crash test results:

IIHS-HLDI: Ford Fiesta sedan
 

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............................................................

The above paragraph was a direct quote from Sam during his live chat. Since the only doors on the Fiesta are the outside doors it seems to me that what the IIHS said is exactly what a Ford representative said weeks ago when asked. No headline there.
dfw.embalmer makes the point clearly and I understand it perfectly. I can also read the talking around in their response. Those kinds of responses press my 'annoyed button' too.

Another thing that bugs me is the statement above about the doors/door handles. "Since the only doors on the Fiesta are the outside doors"...? What the hell is that all about? Wasn't the issue about the handles? There are outside door handles and inside door handles. Might just be me but that response was really strange....
 

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I think since I own the car, I have the right to order the parts and have the work done at a body shop of my choice. If the car was in a wreck, and i picked an independent body shop for repair, they would have to release the parts and procedures for repair, once a car is released i don't see how they can keep the repair procedures proprietary.
Actually, they don't have to. Most of the time, they will, upon request, but most of that type stuff is proprietary. You are of course welcome to purchase OEM parts from the dealership and have them installed by an independant shop. Absolutely. There is no requirement that a Ford service department has to do the work.

Chiltons and Haynes usually has a repair manual out fairly soon after a car is released, and make those available to the shops.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You have the parts list...

Actually, they don't have to. Most of the time, they will, upon request, but most of that type stuff is proprietary. You are of course welcome to purchase OEM parts from the dealership and have them installed by an independant shop. Absolutely. There is no requirement that a Ford service department has to do the work.

Chiltons and Haynes usually has a repair manual out fairly soon after a car is released, and make those available to the shops.
What would your dealer charge to do the retrofit?
 

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What would your dealer charge to do the retrofit?
DFW based on the part numbers that you posted and the IIHS video I would say that the worry about the doors is a for the rear doors. To replace outside door handles on most cars that I have done it pays about 1 to 1.5 hours per door. I think the shop rate is 105.00 dollars per hour so to do all four handles you are looking at 4 to 6 hours of shop rate. To do just the rear doors you are looking at 2 to 3 hours. So that works out to 420.00 to 630.00 for all 4 or 210.00 to 315.00 for just the rears plus tax of course. This is just labor prices and the parts would also have to be added into that. Also all dealers have different shop rates so shop around in your area for a true estimate.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
That is about what I figured.

DFW based on the part numbers that you posted and the IIHS video I would say that the worry about the doors is a for the rear doors. To replace outside door handles on most cars that I have done it pays about 1 to 1.5 hours per door. I think the shop rate is 105.00 dollars per hour so to do all four handles you are looking at 4 to 6 hours of shop rate. To do just the rear doors you are looking at 2 to 3 hours. So that works out to 420.00 to 630.00 for all 4 or 210.00 to 315.00 for just the rears plus tax of course. This is just labor prices and the parts would also have to be added into that. Also all dealers have different shop rates so shop around in your area for a true estimate.
I was planning on an outlay of about a grand to get the whole thing done (plus or minus a little).

The only place I could confirm that the parts WERE in fact a "Reinforcement" was the Russian website. That just tells me Ford knew for a long time that there was a need for reinforcement to the handles if the parts have been available for cars built in foreign markets. The more I research this the more I am beginning to think the US design team was trying to trim weight/save money and the reinforcement part for the door handles was a victim of that. One could assume Ford thought that they had not had any problems so they could eliminate that part. Also, that would explain why it was so readily available as a "redesign" once the IIHS popped the side of the car and the door came open, the engineers said "I guess we better put that reinforcement back".................
 

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The only place I could confirm that the parts WERE in fact a "Reinforcement" was the Russian website. That just tells me Ford knew for a long time that there was a need for reinforcement to the handles if the parts have been available for cars built in foreign markets. The more I research this the more I am beginning to think the US design team was trying to trim weight/save money and the reinforcement part for the door handles was a victim of that. One could assume Ford thought that they had not had any problems so they could eliminate that part. Also, that would explain why it was so readily available as a "redesign" once the IIHS popped the side of the car and the door came open, the engineers said "I guess we better put that reinforcement back".................
It's an interesting theory, and there could be something to it. But, I would like you to provide proof before continuing to speculate.

I think that because the original post of this thread was found to not actually be new information that we'll close it.

But, Matthew and LMTech did get a chance to provide additional information that might help your decision on whether to get the parts upgraded or not.

It sounds as if it's doable, and that the costs have been ballparked. So, now it just comes down to getting it done. And who will pay for it… you, your dealer, or Ford. And that's something that will of course need to be hammered out.

However, if you do go through with the retrofit, I would welcome you to post the final outcome here as a guide for others that might wish to do the same.
 
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