New "Powershift" Getting the Thumbs Down
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Read the 3rd page of the Motor Trend review posted on the Review thread.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/1007_2011_ford_fiesta_review/engine_transmission.html
"If you want to have some real fun, though, slot it into L. Traditionally standing for Low, on Ford's latest automatic transmissions it actually represents "Lowest possible gear at the current speed." On the road, it means the transmission will hold a gear all the way to redline and even leave it if you let off the gas. Conversely, it will also drop to a lower gear as soon as is safe for the engine in order to give you as much power as possible. Out on the autocross, this feature proved absolutely brilliant, always dialing up the gear needed right on cue."
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/1007_2011_ford_fiesta_review/engine_transmission.html
"If you want to have some real fun, though, slot it into L. Traditionally standing for Low, on Ford's latest automatic transmissions it actually represents "Lowest possible gear at the current speed." On the road, it means the transmission will hold a gear all the way to redline and even leave it if you let off the gas. Conversely, it will also drop to a lower gear as soon as is safe for the engine in order to give you as much power as possible. Out on the autocross, this feature proved absolutely brilliant, always dialing up the gear needed right on cue."
There were some good reviews of it. Actually, I'd say about half and half. Mainly those were from sensible people though.
The ones complaining were expecting paddle shifters and tried to drive it aggressively and were pissed off that the computer was choosing it's shifts in order to deliver the best fuel mileage. As noted above though by NLC-KC, the journalists at Motor Trend figured out how to get the most out of it and actually liked it for autocrossing.
But aside from Motor Trend, how often have you heard any automotive journalists give glowing reviews of cars with automatic transmissions exclaiming, "And if you really want to have fun and get the most out of this car, buy the automatic! It's worlds of fun! Nothing like those boring manuals.".
It just doesn't happen.
The ones complaining were expecting paddle shifters and tried to drive it aggressively and were pissed off that the computer was choosing it's shifts in order to deliver the best fuel mileage. As noted above though by NLC-KC, the journalists at Motor Trend figured out how to get the most out of it and actually liked it for autocrossing. But aside from Motor Trend, how often have you heard any automotive journalists give glowing reviews of cars with automatic transmissions exclaiming, "And if you really want to have fun and get the most out of this car, buy the automatic! It's worlds of fun! Nothing like those boring manuals.".
It just doesn't happen.
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Actually CNET said definitely buy the automatic.
The reviews are all over the map. Some say you can't tell the difference from a conventional automatic. Others said it kicked down too fast or not fast enough. One thought they were going to stall while starting on an upslope. Everyone agreed it delivered excellent MPG.
My feeling is many of the test drivers are spoiled. I'm coming from an old-school four speed and I'm just glad to see six in a car at this price. I think if I get the performance of a typical 6-speed auto plus daily MPG in the 30s I'll be more than happy.
The reviews are all over the map. Some say you can't tell the difference from a conventional automatic. Others said it kicked down too fast or not fast enough. One thought they were going to stall while starting on an upslope. Everyone agreed it delivered excellent MPG.
My feeling is many of the test drivers are spoiled. I'm coming from an old-school four speed and I'm just glad to see six in a car at this price. I think if I get the performance of a typical 6-speed auto plus daily MPG in the 30s I'll be more than happy.
I think it's partly expecting a DSG-type performance, and partly Ford tuning the transmission aggressively for fuel economy. Personally, as long as the shifts are smooth and unobtrusive I'll be fine with it. But I'm definitely going to test-drive a Fiesta to see if the car is actually "slow" or if it's just journalists spoiled by Mazdaspeed3s and BMW 335is.
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Its just like everybody slamming the CVT used on the 500 and the Freestyle. Honestly you expect to use those as performance autocrossing, and circuit track vehicles. I mean they're for sensible driving on the interstate and cruising at respectable speeds. Not tearing up the parking lot running around cones or trying to get a hefty time on the quarter mile drag strip. Sometimes you have to wonder if people just have too high of expectations on these things. I personally enjoyed the CVT and not being able to feel its shifts when driving the 500 and Freestyle. I haven't had a chance to try an Automatic Fiesta but I'm quite sure it shifts just fine for those who are looking for BASIC DAILY TRANSPORTATION not track performance or ripping up the grocery store parking lot.
Quote from the CNET video clip;
"I took the automated manual on purpose and did not regret it. It's a whiley little gearbox as long as you leave it in L, which is kind of a mislabeled sport position."
Interesting that only Motor Trend and CNET were smart enough to try this out.
"I took the automated manual on purpose and did not regret it. It's a whiley little gearbox as long as you leave it in L, which is kind of a mislabeled sport position."
Interesting that only Motor Trend and CNET were smart enough to try this out.
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Thats because in the past couple years Motor Trend alone has been hiring smarter people who don't praise Rice all day as a God Send to Automotives and leave NA Makers out in the cold weather. CNET has always been intelligent in their reviews of everything from Cars to Electronics. I used to hate Motor Trend but I've started to like it once again.
Thanks for all the input, some very good points made.
My brother who does drive a Freestyle with the CVT (and likes it), is concerned about the way Powershift performed. Hopefully it being a pre-production car was the reason for the bad set-up and experience.
My brother who does drive a Freestyle with the CVT (and likes it), is concerned about the way Powershift performed. Hopefully it being a pre-production car was the reason for the bad set-up and experience.
And really, if there are any real shift problems with the Powershift, it would be nothing more than a software upgrade from Ford. The design of the tranny itself isn't entirely new so mechanically, it should be fine.
I'll have to pay more attention to both Motor Trend and CNET for automotive reviews. I've used CNET for electronics research and bought equipment partly based on their ratings but hadn't even known they reviewed cars until Marc included their link in this thread.
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Its been a slow process but at least they've opened their eyes up. Yeah CNET has been doing reviews of everything for a while now. I think a couple years but yeah they're best for the Electronics World. Which is why I use them to when researching software or something new.
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Even if it is a good product in the end just as with traditional automatics they generally have a shorter life span and require more expensive maintenance than manual trannies....
My advice........ if you're going to keep the car after the factory warranty expires I would strongly suggest the manual .
I'm not just talking about Ford here, this advice is sound for ALL car purchases.
My advice........ if you're going to keep the car after the factory warranty expires I would strongly suggest the manual .
I'm not just talking about Ford here, this advice is sound for ALL car purchases.
Manuals are generally longer-lasting than automatics, and that appeals to me since if I get a Fiesta I intend to keep it for a LONG time, but it irritates me that the manual is only a five-speed. I imagine the PowerShift's extra gear makes it a bit more relaxed on the highway and that appeals to me, plus six speeds is just cooler than five. Plus I'm still inexperienced with manuals, though I'm sure I'd get the hang of it fast if I drove one regularly. Who knows, maybe by the time I get a Fiesta it'll have a six-speed manual
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Fiesta...you'll definitely enjoy the flexibility and interaction of the manual as long as you don't have a daily commute that involves heavy grid lock like traffic...
Not only that but the purchase price is lower, and maintenance costs will be quite a bit lower once the factory warranty runs out. Most folks forget to consider this aspect of ownership...but it is a VERY VERY important part that could make or break your wallet when you can least afford it.
Don't be too dissapointed about the lack of a 6 speed manual...Sometimes when a critical item like a tranny is a tried and tested item it is a very good thing!
My guess is that once you drive the 5 sp manual you won't really care about the lack of the extra cog!
Not only that but the purchase price is lower, and maintenance costs will be quite a bit lower once the factory warranty runs out. Most folks forget to consider this aspect of ownership...but it is a VERY VERY important part that could make or break your wallet when you can least afford it.
Don't be too dissapointed about the lack of a 6 speed manual...Sometimes when a critical item like a tranny is a tried and tested item it is a very good thing!
My guess is that once you drive the 5 sp manual you won't really care about the lack of the extra cog!
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You know, in most cases like the Getrag and the MTX75, the MTX75 is just a better choice. The Getrag is geared too close as a six speed so if you're doing 73 mph down the interstate you're gonna run 3K on the tach just like on the MTX75.
5-speed manual
1st 3.846
2nd 2.038
3rd 1.281
4th 0.951
5th 0.756
Reverse 3.615
Final drive 4.07 to 1
PowerShift™ 6-speed automatic
1st 3.917
2nd 2.429
3rd 1.436
4th 1.021
5th 0.867
6th 0.702
Reverse 3.507
Final drive 3.895 for gears 1, 2, 5, and 6.
Final drive 4.353 for gears 3, 4 and R.
1st 3.846
2nd 2.038
3rd 1.281
4th 0.951
5th 0.756
Reverse 3.615
Final drive 4.07 to 1
PowerShift™ 6-speed automatic
1st 3.917
2nd 2.429
3rd 1.436
4th 1.021
5th 0.867
6th 0.702
Reverse 3.507
Final drive 3.895 for gears 1, 2, 5, and 6.
Final drive 4.353 for gears 3, 4 and R.
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Close gearing on the Powershift.
It is unclear how well the Powershift will hold up being new, but it appears the target is that it will not need maintenance for the life of the car. The "slushbox" automatics I've had have never needed maintenance beyond changing the fluid, and the latest generation fluids are based on Group III base oils and last a lot longer. With a conventional automatic, you don't need to worry about an expensive clutch disc replacement like a manual. However I wonder how long the clutches in the Powershift will hold up.
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