Fiesta Faction banner

1 - 20 of 88 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So like many Fiesta owners with the base Sync system, I think it sucks balls and I’m looking for options. Yes, aftermarket options do exist but they’re more expensive, and don’t look OEM. I decided to research into what exactly it would take to upgrade to Sync 3. I’ll be using this thread as a place to put my findings, and possibily brainstorm with other memebers. I don’t think this is nearly as difficult as some have made it seem.

Ok so there’s roughly 4 components that make up the audio system on these cars (without Sony audio):

APIM (Accessory protocol interface module)- this is the module that handles bluetooth, Sync, USB audio, and communicates with other parts of the car (vehicle system menus, door ajar warnings, etc..). Basically it’s the brains of the infotainment system.

ACM (Audio Control Module)- The “radio”. This is what does the audio processing, plays CD, and receives AM/FM radio and amplifies it to the speakers. As far as I can tell this is the same for both systems and wont need to be changed.

Control panel - Ur buttons

Screen- Self-explanatory


So here’s what I understand so far:

The APIM on base Sync cars is located behind the glovebox, whereas on Sync 3 cars it’s located behind the screen. In fact usually the screen and APIM are sold together in the used market. This is challenge #1 because the harness connector is actually in 2 different places. The good news it it appears to use the same 54pin connector for both versions, however the pin arrangement/configuration is likely to be different. How do we get from under the glove box to behind the screen? With some sort of an extension harness. Sure you can make one, but the female portion of the connector is difficult to source. You could also just get one of these.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/54pin-ford-sync-electrical-automotive-apim_60678051034.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.522569e9YhDKxV

These are meant to add backup camera, but assuming it’s long enough would work well as an extension itself. You would only need to re-arrange the pins which is just really a matter of studying the wiring diagrams for both versions. You’ll also need to extend the USB cable, but that’s just a regular mini-usb cable so any USB extension cable would work. Additionally there’s the FAKRA connector for the GPS, which only drives the compass AFAIK and I think also works with 911 Assist. You can either extend that as well or just get another antenna.

Next thing is the connection between the control panel and and the APIM. I havent verified this but I think both use the same connector. I need to look at wiring diagrams of the two systems to be sure though.

Shopping list (so far):

- Sync 3 APIM/Screen assembly ($100 or so on Ebay)
- Control panel ($35-$50 Ebay)
- Console hood/shroud (probably like $20 or so)
- Extension harness ($15 or so from China)
- USB extension cable ($3 or so from Amazon)

Now for the P-word. Programming. I don’t think there will be much that needs to be done here that can’t be done with Forscan. Yes the APIM wont have the correct VIN# programmed to it, and so what? Who cares. The only thing I can see this causing an issue with is doing a Vehicle health report, which is something I’m willing to give up. There aren’t that many different configurations of our cars where options config would be that big of a difference.

Another thing that gives me conficence. This has been done before. Just not on Fiestas. F150 people have done it, Focus people have done it, and Fusion people have done it, and probably more I just haven’t really looked. Fords ICE systems more or less work the same across all models, just with varying degrees of complexity. The good news is that our cars are relatively simple compared to higher-end models where Sync integrates with the instrument cluster, the climate control (since it’s controlled via touch screen on many of those cars whereas on ours it’s separate), etc.. They somehow managed to figure it out and we wont have half of the issues to deal with since our cars don’t have any of that **** anyway.

There’s some good reading here:
http://www.2gfusions.net/showthread.php?tid=4050
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Ok I so I purchased a 3-day subscription to Ford ETIS so I can pour over the wiring diagrams. Here’s what I learned that’s different between the two systems:

- The GPSM on the windshield is only used by Sync 1 and Sync 2/MFT. It communicates over the MS-CAN network, and does NOT connect direclty to the APIM via Fakra connector as I previously thought. Sync 3 however *does* accept a connection from a GPS antenna via a Fakra connector so you would need to use a standalone antenna. I don’t know what other function you would need this for other than navigation so if you don’t plan on using navi you can probably skip the antenna.

- Sync 3 APIM’s seem to be pretty much the same across most Ford models, with the difference being in programming. This is pretty much a non-issue if you program with as-built data from a Fiesta VIN#. The screens however are different because most Fords use an 8” screen whereas our cars are tiny and use a 6.5” screen.

- Sync 1 communicates on I-CAN and HS-CAN but not MS-CAN. Sync 3 uses all 3, so you would need to tie into the MS-CAN network. Fortunatly there’s several nearby locations for this (Cluster, Climate control, or the splice pack).

- Sync 3 uses a dual-port USB hub where Sync 1 cars have a single USB port and Aux-in Jack. The hub is powered by 12v/gnd supplied directly by the APIM, which is something that Sync 1 cars wont have. The hub doesn’t appear to be necessary if you don’t need to connect more than one device, and you could probably continue to use the single-USB port. Sync 3 does NOT use aux-in and in fact the pins on the 54-pin connector (pins 46 and 47) that Sync 1 uses is actually used for the steering wheel controls on Sync 3.

- The way the steering wheel controls work is different. On Sync 1, the steering wheel controls connect to the display screen, but on Sync 3 connect to the APIM using the same pins that would normally be used for the line-in/aux jack. Fortunately the Sync 1 screen connector is in the same place as where the Sync 3 APIM will live so you could just tie into the harness easily.

- The control panels work differently. On Sync 1 the control panel communicates directly to the display screen via it’s own decicated LIN-Bus, where likely the display screen transmits button presses on the i-bus to be picked up by the APIM. On Sync 3 the control panel works directly on the i-bus. I had to look at how it's set up on my own car but on Sync 1 cars, there is a wire (pin 7) that goes to the display panel (the dedicated LIN-BUS) and on Sync 3 cars pin 7 is for I-CAN + and pin 4 is for I-CAN -. Pin 4 is unoccupied on Sync 1 cars.

So far wiring changes needed are:

APIM 54-pin connector:

- Pins 16 and 17 move to 18 and 19 respecively. Run new MS-CAN lines to 16 and 17.

- pins 46 and 47 connect to pins 7 and 10 on Sync 1 display harness connector (C2123) for the steering wheel controls to work.

- Pins 4 and 7 on the control panel connector need to go to the I-BUS.

I think I'm going to make my own harness adapter. I already sourced the mating connectors (was actually the hardest part of this research so far) so that I'll be able to do a plug-and-play install. I'd like to be able to return to stock easily with no evidence of modification since this car is still under warranty.

Still more to come as I learn more!

Here's some great illustrations that shows how these systems differ.
Sync 3

Sync 1


I also came across a bulletin that states a new USB hub is required when upgrading Sync 3 for Apple Carplay. I have no idea why yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Shopping list so far, not including anything wiring related:

  • Sync 3 6.5" Screen
  • Sync 3 APIM
  • FCIM/Front control panel
  • USB Hub (if you want Carplay)
  • Center console from a Sync 3 or Sync 2 car (if you want it to look factory)
  • Screen support bracket (D2BZ-18888-A)
  • Screen hood/shroud (D2BZ-58042A82-DA)
  • Generic GPS antenna if you want navigation or the compass to work.
Most of this can be obtainable in one deal if you can get on good terms with a salvage yard. I'm trying to find a local place that I can drive to that has a 2016 Fiesta waiting for me to pick it's bones clean.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,250 Posts
Shopping list so far, not including anything wiring related:

  • Sync 3 6.5" Screen
  • Sync 3 APIM
  • FCIM/Front control panel
  • USB Hub (if you want Carplay)
  • Center console from a Sync 3 or Sync 2 car (if you want it to look factory)
  • Screen support bracket (D2BZ-18888-A)
  • Screen hood/shroud (D2BZ-58042A82-DA)
  • Generic GPS antenna if you want navigation or the compass to work.
Most of this can be obtainable in one deal if you can get on good terms with a salvage yard. I'm trying to find a local place that I can drive to that has a 2016 Fiesta waiting for me to pick it's bones clean.
Isn’t the black box above the rear view mirror the gps antenna?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Yes, but Sync 3 doesn't use it. The one above the mirror *is* a GPS module but it transmits data across MS-CAN, which works with Sync 1 and Sync 2. Sync 3 has it's own connector for a GPS antenna and doesn't use MS-CAN for GPS data. On factory Sync 3 cars the GPS antenna is integrated with the radio antenna on the rear of the roof, and I believe doesn't even have the GPS module behind the mirror.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
When you say Sync 1 do you mean the Text based system? If so then the question comes up of what year? There are chinese Android systems that are fully integrated with the later 2013+ cars that would do a much better and cheaper job. I actually put one of these systems in my 11, and while I got it to work (I am a systems engineer, not something most would of been able to do), it was damn difficult. The problem is the protocol used by ford on the cars engine computer, APIM and FCIM are ALL different from the later models and actually vary some even with the sync base and MFT systems (though you do seem to realize this). That being said, if my car was a 13 or newer, the android kit would of been plug and play with full sync and car controls for lane change and such (I got mine working but I had to do several hardware interface mods and kept the screen in the glovebox as the screen is the FCIM).

Really from a rational perspective, just looking at the amount of physical modding that would need to be done, I hate to say it but I don't really think this would be possible. Further I do believe that sync 3 needs to be programed to both the cars vin and of course the backup camera and I know it needs additional programing for the GPS. I know you can reprogram the camera for 2 with relatively cheap DIY tools, but I do not believe that this is currently possible for 3 without ford tech software, but I could be wrong. I looked into it for an Edge when it first came out but decided that the parts cost wasn't worth it once GPS was factored in, and that would of been a straight swap with someone I know doing the Ford reprogramming to my vehicle. I know it's not Sync, but I'd just go with the chinese kit for which has Android, works well and is around $375 out the door and a straight swap if you want a touch screen like I did.

Edit: Wanted to add that as was said, you'd need the FULL GPS MODULE not JUST the antenna. This is different on each of the cars, the early production sync, "sync 1", and MFT (sync 2) ALL are different. This is an expensive part as well and as I said MUST be programed to your unit to ensure that you paid the Ford "tax" for GPS.

2nd Edit: Read the other forum post on the guy that supposedly did a 3 upgrade, and honestly, I don't believe it. These values are not just something that you can "find" in the canbus data. If you read out the data the car sends hundreds of CAN messages in a matter of seconds and it's very difficult to determine what is doing what (this reverse engineering is a major expense for the companies that are working on self driving systems, as it took them a large investment to be able to read everything and then send the commands for the control of the car). Besides, I know that the ACIM is tied to the VIN in the BCM and what and needs to be set. This wouldn't be something that you would be able to just see in CAN, though I do believe that ForScan now supports setting the value on the ACIM, but that would only allow it to communicate with the car's computer and wouldn't fool it into enabling options that weren't enabled from the factory (In my limited probing Ford seems to disable functions to ensure no aftermarket/workaround trim upgrades). Thus, this type of conversion could only work with a BCM that came with the features the sync unit checks for (Like the edge I was looking at doing that had full Sync 2 with the same protocols). Without having Sync 2, and there being SO many variances of the systems with the Fiesta, even with MFT cars, I think it'd be nigh impossible unless you swapped everything including the BCM and that's just crazy (or you have already have a basically identical one or two year off sync 2 car). This isn't going to be able to be Frankenstein'd with junkyard parts from different cars without a good amount of reprogramming of every module which may or may not even be possible for the garage mechanic. Even still, I believe the GPS still MUST be enabled by the Ford dealer software as this is Fords big money maker and if your unit doesn't have it, or it doesn't pass it's security checks your SOL without dealer software. I know units with this enabled, at least last year, were commanding big money because of it, and in my mind without the GPS what is the point unless you have a MFT system which is so god awful that you're desperate and will do almost anything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
When I refer to Sync, I’m referring to the OS that runs on the APIM. Do you have an example of the Chinese Android system? Can you post a link?

There really isn’t very much physical modding that needs to be done honestly. When you’re referring to GPS are you referring to navigation? I’m not interested in a unit that has built in navigation as I plan on using Carplay/Waze. In that case the GPS antenna would only be used for the compass, and literally that’s all I would need is the antenna as the Sync 3 module has a Fakra plug right on the back of it. The sync 2 and Sync 1 modules do not and use the GPS module.

AB files have been successfully reverse-engineered for quite a few things, and its not something you find in the CAN data. You download it in hexidecimal format right from Ford’s site. Enter a VIN# and get the AB data. Then you can use a compare tool to see the difference between two vehicles. Use FORSCAN to upload that AB file and there you go, you re-configured that module for different features. It’s often just a matter of flipping a single digit. There aren’t that many variances of the Fiesta for this to be even be that complicated. As far as VIN programming, I’m not convinced that’s even necessary. I don’t think the BCM or any other module in the car gives a **** what VIN the APIM in programmed for. People on the F150 and Fusion forums have done this swap and didn’t have any issue with VIN programming, and I refuse to believe the Fiesta works any differently.

We’ll see what happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
At this point I would hesitate to buy the carplay for Waze. This is NOT a currently supported feature and based upon Applink, well I am highly suspect of anything they say. Also it will REQUIRE GPS on the ford side since that is where it will be running. I REPEAT WAZE WILL NOT BE A CARPLAY APP. Just want to make sure you realize that BIG distinction. It will be applink 2.0. I do not, and I say this as an iOS developer for 5+ years, believe that Apple will open up CarPlay anytime soon to outside apps, especially google ones.

Now that being said the issue I need to say upfront with Waze and with the android unit that may or may not apply to you is it needs either tethering or a data plan as it is another device not a pass through. I actually have a free line from T-Mobile that I use in mine via a WiFi hotspot unit which starts with the car, but if you are using iPhone which I assume you are, you’d need to enable tethering from the control center each time you start the car, which is a pain, or use a cell card.

Having said that the android units have gone way down in price and now around the $300 mark. Here’s the link to be seller I purchased from.
http://s.aliexpress.com/N7v2y22q The kit comes with all the cables to connect where the screen was, retain SWC and front buttons. You will lose 911 alert, however this is true with either case as that function requires input from the BCM.

As to the BCM, in your case it wouldn’t matter anyways since you wouldn’t have the possibility of using climate or anything I just mention it because A. I don’t want you to believe that other guy when he’s claiming how easy it is (which you seem well educated on), and B. I’ve always looked at it for a 100% working swap for a non tech person who would want a full stock, like factory system integration. I honestly do not know what it checks, I believe it’s just a value that is programmed on the ACIM to do a basic validation check.

Overall, if Waze is your MAIN goal, I’d stay away from trying to go no MFT to 3. Too much risk and as I said I can guarantee you will need GPS which means an ACIM with that enabled and the GPS module.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Also the specs that the guy has listed there are rather old. The unit he sourced for me was a quad core, with android 6 and I believe 4gb of ram for around that price. As a note through the built in 4g is no good for the IS apart from T-mobile edge (which I believe they have finally shut down, but not certain) or I believe sprint frequencies. It’s geared obviously for the Chinese, Europe and SA markets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Also, don’t get a stereo just for CarPlay. CarPlay blows hard and makes me dislike the fact that I can’t escape apple even more (too much invested as an OG iPhone user, and doing development for work). Waze is totally worth it along with Alexa. Both those features are the reason I did mine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I want Carplay just so I can have control over music (Apple music, Spotify, Mixcloud and Overcast) and text messaging. I've used it plenty of times in other vehicles and it's fine for what it is. I know Waze isn't part of Carplay (I've done some iOS development work as well) and requires Applink, but it's my understanding that Waze is still running on your phone and doesn't require a NAV enabled APIM. All that's needed is software version 3.0 and above. Like I said, we'll see. I know this is fully experimental and I know there's a chance it just wont work.

As far as climate control, I don't need climate control on the screen. I have physical controls that work just fine. :) One question, with that Android unit can you enable/disable traction control and hill-assist?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
When you say Sync 1 do you mean the Text based system? If so then the question comes up of what year? There are chinese Android systems that are fully integrated with the later 2013+ cars that would do a much better and cheaper job. I actually put one of these systems in my 11, and while I got it to work (I am a systems engineer, not something most would of been able to do), it was damn difficult. The problem is the protocol used by ford on the cars engine computer, APIM and FCIM are ALL different from the later models and actually vary some even with the sync base and MFT systems (though you do seem to realize this). That being said, if my car was a 13 or newer, the android kit would of been plug and play with full sync and car controls for lane change and such (I got mine working but I had to do several hardware interface mods and kept the screen in the glovebox as the screen is the FCIM).

Really from a rational perspective, just looking at the amount of physical modding that would need to be done, I hate to say it but I don't really think this would be possible. Further I do believe that sync 3 needs to be programed to both the cars vin and of course the backup camera and I know it needs additional programing for the GPS. I know you can reprogram the camera for 2 with relatively cheap DIY tools, but I do not believe that this is currently possible for 3 without ford tech software, but I could be wrong. I looked into it for an Edge when it first came out but decided that the parts cost wasn't worth it once GPS was factored in, and that would of been a straight swap with someone I know doing the Ford reprogramming to my vehicle. I know it's not Sync, but I'd just go with the chinese kit for which has Android, works well and is around $375 out the door and a straight swap if you want a touch screen like I did.

Edit: Wanted to add that as was said, you'd need the FULL GPS MODULE not JUST the antenna. This is different on each of the cars, the early production sync, "sync 1", and MFT (sync 2) ALL are different. This is an expensive part as well and as I said MUST be programed to your unit to ensure that you paid the Ford "tax" for GPS.

2nd Edit: Read the other forum post on the guy that supposedly did a 3 upgrade, and honestly, I don't believe it. These values are not just something that you can "find" in the canbus data. If you read out the data the car sends hundreds of CAN messages in a matter of seconds and it's very difficult to determine what is doing what (this reverse engineering is a major expense for the companies that are working on self driving systems, as it took them a large investment to be able to read everything and then send the commands for the control of the car). Besides, I know that the ACIM is tied to the VIN in the BCM and what and needs to be set. This wouldn't be something that you would be able to just see in CAN, though I do believe that ForScan now supports setting the value on the ACIM, but that would only allow it to communicate with the car's computer and wouldn't fool it into enabling options that weren't enabled from the factory (In my limited probing Ford seems to disable functions to ensure no aftermarket/workaround trim upgrades). Thus, this type of conversion could only work with a BCM that came with the features the sync unit checks for (Like the edge I was looking at doing that had full Sync 2 with the same protocols). Without having Sync 2, and there being SO many variances of the systems with the Fiesta, even with MFT cars, I think it'd be nigh impossible unless you swapped everything including the BCM and that's just crazy (or you have already have a basically identical one or two year off sync 2 car). This isn't going to be able to be Frankenstein'd with junkyard parts from different cars without a good amount of reprogramming of every module which may or may not even be possible for the garage mechanic. Even still, I believe the GPS still MUST be enabled by the Ford dealer software as this is Fords big money maker and if your unit doesn't have it, or it doesn't pass it's security checks your SOL without dealer software. I know units with this enabled, at least last year, were commanding big money because of it, and in my mind without the GPS what is the point unless you have a MFT system which is so god awful that you're desperate and will do almost anything.
Hey man, I'm the guy who did the SYNC 2 -> 3 conversion. You don't have to believe me, but whatever you are talking about in your post is kinda really outdated. I did most of reprogramming using FORScan, it was actually fairly easy. Also, speaking from MY experience, my APIM pulled the cars VIN from my ECU after I flashed it with the update. Not totally sure how that happened, but I was planning on reprogramming that too. It's honestly not even a big deal if it doesn't pull the VIN, still can't update SYNC 3 over the air because when I try my VIN doesn't check out :confused:

Again, you can look on my profile, I made a couple of posts about the conversion, and the post with way less detail somehow made it to the top, the other one has more detail. I used Ford Fusions as built spreadsheet and reprogrammed accordingly. You'd be surprised how many universal values Ford uses across all of their vehicles. I'd say I saw about 75% of same registries in Fusions AS-BUILT and my AS-BUILT APIM. At one point I've enabled all of the features, nav, touchscreen controlled AC, touchscreen controlled heated seats and other gimmicky ****e like that but none of it actually worked. My unit came off of an automatic SE sedan with manual AC controls and with no backup camera, and I have a Titanium hatchback with automatic AC, backup camera, hill assist, etc, you get the gist. Had to reprogram all of it. I mean nobody has to believe me, but I could make a more detailed video showing my 2014 VIN and my 2017 Sync 3 module :)

Also not to be rude, but it doesn't really sound like you know what you're talking about. First of all VIN isn't tied to the APIM... At all. You don't need an identical APIM to have everything work as intended, it's re-programmable, and it is not difficult at all. Also, you can't "enable the GPS at the dealer", with SYNC 3 there are two separate models, one with GPS module and another one without. You can get a GPS antenna like I did but all it does is lets you see if you're driving south/north/west/east on the little compass on the screen. I'm by no means a "garage mechanic", but I am a Ph.D computer science research assistant. I know what I'm doing when it comes to "reprogramming". Doesn't sound like you do though, sorry bud. I've done the full conversion and can provide proof and details. I have a lot of those in my other post. All I had was a OBD2 usb cable and my laptop, you don't need any special tools.

Anyways, haven't been on the forum for a while, sorry for not responding to y'all earlier! Any questions are welcomed :) Also here is my original post with more details:

http://www.fiestafaction.com/forums/threads/54426-SYNC-2-to-SYNC-3-upgrade
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
If you read out the data the car sends hundreds of CAN messages in a matter of seconds and it's very difficult to determine what is doing what (this reverse engineering is a major expense for the companies that are working on self driving systems, as it took them a large investment to be able to read everything and then send the commands for the control of the car).
Not to start talking massive ****, but nobody needs to reverse engineer anything, it is all available from car manufacturers. As a matter of fact the only major expense in developing self driving cars is having people who can create and train a neural network to effectively and efficiently recognize objects in front of the car and be able to categorize them appropriately using cameras and sonars. BTW you can create and train a neural network at home, right with your own computer, I've worked with Tensorflow before, was on a self driving car project at my university. Sending and receiving the commands to and from the car is, like, the most minor and easy part of the whole ordeal. Please do some research before you speak again bud.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
I remember reading that Ford was actually describing the Waze partnership as the first of some new platform. Not just applink, but something more then that. I forget now what they called it but, but they were talking about how it was “the first” and their great partnership, blah blah. I could totally see ford doing some sort of hybrid system with the app more on the car, but who knows, maybe it will really run on the phone and not just use it for data and contact data basically. If so then that would be a very positive thing to see for the sync platform, but somehow a totally phone system that doesn’t require any gps on the car just seems like a radical departure for Ford compared to their past history. They claimed that applink was supposed to be “open” and yet it never remotely was.

Here’s the pictures of both the settings and the sync app. Sync basically comes into the radio as an AUX input so the app needs to be launched for sound (music, Bluetooth sound, etc) the rest like the ding and voice control part and phone just goes through the little external speaker that comes with the unit. As for the settings (my car has no way to turn off traction or hill so no way to say if that works) but it only has options in the menu for traction. Why would you want to turn hill assist off out of curiosity? I think mine may have it but I’ve never noticed (though I have a manual).

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Not to start talking massive ****, but nobody needs to reverse engineer anything, it is all available from car manufacturers. As a matter of fact the only major expense in developing self driving cars is having people who can create and train a neural network to effectively and efficiently recognize objects in front of the car and be able to categorize them appropriately using cameras and sonars. BTW you can create and train a neural network at home, right with your own computer, I've worked with Tensorflow before, was on a self driving car project at my university. Sending and receiving the commands to and from the car is, like, the most minor and easy part of the whole ordeal. Please do some research before you speak again bud.
Today yes, when these companies started years ago, no, no automakers were not sharing data about how their systems worked or providing them any assistance. Once the genies out of the bottle and the codes are fairly well known, of course the auto companies are much more cooperative, although still you are talking about a university NOT a private company or individual. Companies don’t even fully document or discusses public APIs, they don’t just give out data about how proprietary systems work. Once you know the command codes of course sending and receiving is easy, you know what codes do what. The difficulty of reverse engineering is what I was commenting on. Being anywhere close to the first is ALWAYS much harder. In the real world you usually aren’t just given a full list of what every command does or how a device works.

There’s no reason to be rude just because you’ve done one (most likely BS) self driving project at university and now you think you now know everything. Self driving innovation is not going to and so far has not come from the academic world but private companies and people who were not given privileged access by the auto company.

As a tip in general if you can’t contribute to the discussion at hand, in this case the subsystems of Sync and how they communicate, don’t comment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
Today yes, when these companies started years ago, no, no automakers were not sharing data about how their systems worked or providing them any assistance. Once the genies out of the bottle and the codes are fairly well known, of course the auto companies are much more cooperative, although still you are talking about a university NOT a private company or individual. Companies don’t even fully document or discusses public APIs, they don’t just give out data about how proprietary systems work. Once you know the command codes of course sending and receiving is easy, you know what codes do what. The difficulty of reverse engineering is what I was commenting on. Being anywhere close to the first is ALWAYS much harder. In the real world you usually aren’t just given a full list of what every command does or how a device works.

There’s no reason to be rude just because you’ve done one (most likely BS) self driving project at university and now you think you now know everything. Self driving innovation is not going to and so far has not come from the academic world but private companies and people who were not given privileged access by the auto company.

As a tip in general if you can’t contribute to the discussion at hand, in this case the subsystems of Sync and how they communicate, don’t comment.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's funny how everything you just said was wrong. I urge you to look up nVidia Jetson, not gonna go into too much detail, but Jetson is what has been used by universities on self driving car projects. That and various sonars, cameras, and motors. Look I'm not going to argue with someone who seems to be very out of touch with the present and speak out of his bum a whole lot, especially when I have factual proof of everything ;)

Thanks for the tip, but I don't really take tips from under-educated, ignorant people who feel the need to diminish the accomplishments of others due to their own lack of knowledge and understanding the subject of matter ;) I don't see why would I stop commenting on the matter since all you can actually do is speculate and talk out of your bum, while I have done the conversion all by myself without any tutorials or guides and can actually contribute to the conversation :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Alexlfm it's not really as complicated as you're thinking it is. All of the APIM's are the same regardless of what vehicle it came from, the only difference is NAV or Non-NAV. They all have the same software, and it's only configured for individual vehicles with the As Built file. I can take an APIM for a Lincoln and configure it for a Fiesta. Likewise I can take an APIM for a Mustang and configure it for a Lincoln. The BCM doesn't actually do much other than control lighting, etc. It has no influence on what modules are allowed and not allowed to operate on the bus. The cluster however does. The cluster is the gateway for pretty much all the systems on the car, is responsible for the theft deterrent system, and is what configures other modules when you flash an as-built file. You use Central Configuration to tell the IPC what equipment you have, in this case Sync 3, and it then in turn configures all the other modules (like the ACM) to play nicely with it.




The BCM just stores that configuration as a backup. It's the same way I enabled fog-lights on my vehicle, another thing that was supposedly "impossible".

http://www.fiestafaction.com/forums/threads/53914-Enabling-fog-lights-with-Forscan

That Android head unit does actually look pretty cool and they obviously put some R&D into it but you can't argue that in terms of quality between Sync 3 and a Chinese head unit that Sync 3 is mostly likely better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
It's funny how everything you just said was wrong. I urge you to look up nVidia Jetson,
nVidia, A PRIVATE company. So universities are now implementing it in test. Big deal. The INITIAL work was all done privately and without any help. Also when talking about the can codes that's companies like Google, nVidia early on, etc. Also the Forscan people have put a lot of time into their product and I think it's insulting to them to act like all of this is public information. When you come in full of attitude because "you have a doctorate" it's quite rude. Great, I have an MBA and dual degrees in both CS and Math. There's a big difference between tinkering with stuff at a university and actually making it. All the universities are doing is basic field trials, not any real development work.

I'm not knocking your conversion, but you went from Sync 2 to 3. And yes, I didn't check over every post you made, but you have to admit that topic WAY over simplify things. That is not the same as no MFT to Sync. And yes, obviously if you have any BS degree, you aren't a garage mechanic, but a skilled engineer. I see the issue of no MFT as a major challenge since that's were you have to get into potentially replacing stuff that talks to the BCM. Not just the ACIM. The design is completely different.

Like I said, I think it's highly insulting to the people who spent a lot of time and energy reverse engineering these systems to say that any of this is straightforward and or simple. Also insulting people on fourms, telling them not to comment and calling them under-educated just shows your own "education" level. I never claimed to be the worlds expert on this, just sharing my experience looking into it myself and seeing that to go from no MFT to 3 is quite a big ask. If you're such the expert then make up a tutorial and actually help others. In any case, once again with the topic at hand, what are the requirements for a full no MFT to 3 conversion?
 
1 - 20 of 88 Posts
Top