funny he mentioned some of the features that are not going to be on the US cars, unless, Ford got smart and decided to keep them for the US car. If so, FocalJet will be happy! Great review from the event.
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Ok, so let me say this: I have spent about 3,000 miles in the Euro seat, so I have a fairly firm idea (excuse the pun) of what it feels like. Although the seats are comfy when you first get in, and look fantastic, the more I critique them I notice they are really quite small.
Mind you, I am 5'8'', maybe 165-170 (not exactly a "big" guy) and my back/shoulders BARELY fits inside the allotted area. The seats have so much side cushioning it almost pushes you out of the seat, and for a large individual, it would. For the same reason I wasn't a huge fan of the Ricaro/Euro seats in my GF's RSX.
So, when I consider the fact that Europeans on average are smaller than Americans, I am starting to think a different seat is a good idea. A small person can fit in a flatter, less obtrusive support-style seat just fine, but what about larger people trying to fit into the Euro seat? They literally won't be able to fit! People talk about American auto companies making poor business decisions, and I honestly think that putting seats in the car to cater to a SMALL minority that will make the car incredibly uncomfortable or flat un-usable to a large majority would be silly.
Now I realize the importance of not killing off all the things that make the Euro spec Fiesta a great car, trust me, I get that, but at the same time I think some people are taking this overboard with their never-ending complaints about things they don't even understand, or haven't even seen.
another concept that I think people over look is that Ford has a lagging perception behind the reality of their quality. If they over night decide to make their cars the best quality in EVERY SINGLE aspect with every single detail and request put into the vehicle they will have to raise their prices and stop their discounts all at once. People will freak out.
If they instead make big steps, but make them STEPS of increasing quality and out-doing the competition in most (but not 100%) areas they can slowly start to justify their premium prices. Ford isn't in a position to be selling a sub-compact with 100% premium everything...but they are darn close, and I think people making a stink over a virtually worthless rear fog light and seats that you haven't even been in is just going a little too far.
But maybe that's just me
(Seriously, nothing personal, just trying to show the other side of the coin here)Although I have not sat in the new Fiesta seats, I have sat in the previous generation Fiesta seats and they are almost identical to what is in this new car. I'm a few pounds thinner than you but I seriously didn't ever notice feeling constrained in those seats, at all. I drove a previous gen Fiesta for nearly 5 hours straight with a couple of quick stops and had absolutely no discomfort nor strain from seat time. I personally like the side bolsters it makes you feel more integrated with the car, heck this IS supposed to be a sporty euro car they are marketing here.
Actually in many European markets this isn't true, they are actually taller than the avg American.
So Dearborn thinks that that it's OK for almost half the potential customers that aren't fat to roll around in that wide seat?
What the heck?
Actually it would be what maybe less than half the US population is fat so that actually seems like a bad business decision as well.
I understand seating comfort pretty well, I have been in the euro spec Fords over the years as well as the US spec Fords (not to mention plenty of other brands as well) and I can say overall that the Dearborn seats GENERALLY are not too good, while the FoE models had EXCELLENT wear, comfort, and reduced fatigue.
Then WHY decontent and downgrade something as CRITICAL as the seating?!!!?!? Ford is building this car in Mexico (low production costs) and many of the parts vendors are in low production cost countries so it shouldn't be too difficult for Ford to keep the most critical items as they already are.
Although I don't have alot of respect for marketing guys, I do understand this aspect with Ford in the US.
If it IS true that somehow Ford can save a few bucks by deleting the rear fog and sspl, fine, but if you read my other posts it probably will cost them MORE to delete this for one or two markets vs keeping it, since they have to manufacture different HL switches...unless they already have them being produced for other markets, but I can't think of ANY other market in the world where the rr fog lamp is restricted.
I'm not budging at all on the seating. Period. The one way they could solve this to my and others satisfaction is to simply offer up the euro spec seat as an option, at a slight additional cost. That would suit me fine. I'l gladly do without the silly center armrest, sync, and the like.
No problem, that is why we have forums here so folks can debate things, nothing wrong with a discussion.But maybe that's just me
Haha, no surprise there. Like I mentioned in other posts I haven't been able to sit in the new Fiesta, but I have been in the previous generation Fiesta (almost identical seats to this new model) and found excellent comfort, and NO fatigue during a 5 hr drive through Europe.
So you have ONE single person that has an issue with the Euro Fiesta seating...ONE, that we know of. From all the agents, to the general public that have driven the car, ONE complaint.
If you're really fat or obese you probably aren't going to be interested in a smaller car anyway, you'd probably drive a crown vic, minvan or truck.
Ford needs to offer up the euro spec seat as an option at a slight additional cost.
Same here.
It will almost CERTAINLY cost Ford MORE to delete items like the rear fog, leveling headlamps, and sspl, because they have to produce a different control module AND headlamp switch assy JUST for one or two markets.
There are NO legal restrictions on these features as far as I know, as many cars today have leveling headlamps ( eg. VW GTI) and rr fogs (audi, volvo, ect) and sspl (mercedes, ect)
I can do without sync and the center armrest for sure.
Actually, no, the car is being marketed as a premium subcompact... nowhere in my literature is it being marketed as "sporty." Now, granted, if they offer a true SPORT (R/S/ST/RS) model, then yes, it would make sense to have sport style seats. But as-is, the car is being marketed as a cheap, fun, high quality driver.
The average European IS smaller (height and weight) than the average American. That's a fact. not sure what the point of trying to mention individual markets is? I'm sure I could find an individual market in the US that didn't fit the overall trend... but that would be just as meaningless.
Am I fat at 165 pounds?
My F150 had REALLY flat seats compared to the Focus/Fiesta seats, and yet I didn't "roll around" in my seats. I had that truck lowered with a street sport suspension, 22s, and engine upgrades- I drove the snot out of it and never had problems sliding around my seats. They were leather, too.
Sigh.... again, I'll even keep this simple and use fat/not fat since you think it is that simple...
A fat person can fit in a less sport tuned seat. A fat person CAN NOT fit in sport tuned seat. A not fat person can fit in a less sport tuned seat, and a not fat person can fit in a sport tuned seat.
Thus, common sense tells me that a non-sport tuned seat will accommodate more people.
You have your mind clearly made up that the new seats will be a downgrade and just plain abysmal, and you literally have never even touched them, or sat in them. Maybe you should hold off passing such a harsh judgment until you actually sit in the seat and see if it is truly such a "downgrade."
Again, you are approaching this as if YOU represent the entire market. You don't, not even close. Your size, first of all, does not represent Americans. Then, your taste does not either... you say you could care less about Sync, get rid of it, and yet Americans prefer Sync so much that cars on the lots with Sync vs no Sync move off the lot TWICE as fast!
My point is I think you need to step back and realize there is a BIG picture here, and that sadly when you are talking about selling a product to a massive market with a wide range of customers sometimes certain things can't be exactly how you want them.
Heck, I think the cheesy chrome accents around the fog lights and on the rear hatch should come painted, but a lot of people prefer chrome...and I get that. So I'm not starting mailing campaigns to try and change something that I know makes business sense...just like Ford probably "gets it" better than either of us.
Remember on FJ when the 2008 Focus came out how everyone said it was terrible and Ford was doomed? The sales since the release have been far better than the Focus had seen in years...
LOL. So when and where did you poll the agents? I must have missed that.
There isn't an outlet for "the general public" to make mention of it, nor have many been in the car, and especially not for extended periods of time.
Again, you only see things how you want to see them from your perspective.
Do you think Ford is doing this because they don't want to sell cars? Or do you think Ford is trying to sell cars? Just a thought.
The word "ignorant" comes to mind. Especially considering the fact that I am athletic, fit, and even smaller than the average American. Your theory holds water about as well as a strainer.If you're really fat or obese you probably aren't going to be interested in a smaller car anyway, you'd probably drive a crown vic, minvan or truck.
..and using exactly your argument it will almost certainly cost Ford more to offer Euro seats (even with a premium, and judging from your intentional use of the word SLIGHT you wouldn't be willing to pay for the true difference in cost) for just two small markets than to offer a single seat that would be accommodating to a larger audience. Remember, it isn't as simple as just bringing over the Euro seats that are already the way they are. Ford is going to manufacture locally, and they would have to make both sets of seats locally, or pay the high cost to import them. Neither makes sense, ESPECIALLY when you consider that the small car segment that the Fiesta belongs in as-is in sum total is LESS than 6% of the US market!! Then you figure that Ford will have a small piece of that, and you have a very small segment to justify so many options. It just doesn't make business sense.Ford needs to offer up the euro spec seat as an option at a slight additional cost.
It will almost CERTAINLY cost Ford MORE to delete items like the rear fog, leveling headlamps, and sspl, because they have to produce a different control module AND headlamp switch assy JUST for one or two markets.
..and what do ALL of those vehicles have in common? A price tag to justify the features. The Fiesta has more content than ANY car in its class even with the whopping 2 items that are being removed, and yet that still isn't enough. that's my point really... it will never be enough. There will always be someone to complain about what *they* want or don't want.
...and that is a prime example. YOU may want Euro seats so bad you can feel it, but the majority of Americans would take sync over seats they won't even know they are missing any day.
I'm 5'11", 250lbs, and I love small cars. I've NEVER had an interest in a larger car and I don't want to own a big one at all. In fact, I feel that my Focus is too big of a car for my needs...If you're really fat or obese you probably aren't going to be interested in a smaller car anyway, you'd probably drive a crown vic, minvan or truck.
While walking down the side walk after parking yesterday I noticed a brand new Subaru WRX and checked the seats out. Notice how remarkably similar they are to the likely US spec seats? Wider, flatter, and thinner than the Euro spec seats currently in the Fiesta.
Don't you think they would go for a comfortable, yet accomodating seat that holds you in place for a car like that?
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Don't you think they would go for a comfortable, yet accomodating seat that holds you in place for a car like that?
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